QUOTE (Jun @ Jun 25 2009, 12:24 PM)
Sensible liberal? Lol?
Okay, after you being wrong(or at least mistaken) on almost everything you were trying to argue on the previous thread, I don't think your opinions on the argument have any value. I don't see what's so non-sensible of me to believe the way I believe about what I discussed on the other thread. But it's just that, it's another thread. Argue with me over there if you want to talk about that thread.
Okay, it might sound big-headed for me to say, but I want to seem superior to my opinions on the things I argue for because I'm right. Is that a close-minded thing to say? Yeah, maybe. But if you sincerely don't believe you're right on something you won't be nearly as passionate in trying to defend your view. Have I been wrong on little details? Sure. But as a whole, no. Arguing for English only is eft up, and any 'sensible liberal' should agree.
Is me stating eating fast food constantly and smoking all of the time being bad for you somehow making me sound as if I make my goal to sound superior? If it does, awesome, because it's true.
My responses always contained at least something about the English only side of the debate. The fast food thing was simply tacked in. Go away.
If you want to know the reason why a few people (who are regulars that have been around for years, not just people who popped up in the last 2 months) have commented that they don't like what you have to say, it is right here. Believing you are right is fine, and debating it until you are blue is annoying to some (I do it too though) but also fine overall, but believing everyone else is wrong without any chance of changing your mind is where people get annoyed. This is why people don't like DarkMaverick, it wouldn't matter how many times people would bring up logical arguments, it just falls on deaf ears.
Gerdi and I are similar in that we make a lot of jokes about things, and sometimes we are using internet memes which on the surface might seem stupid or 4chan-ish, but underneath it all we are usually making good points in a very simple manner. To just be very clear here, I'm talking about when we are discussing things in real, meaningful threads, and not in the off-topic lounge which is more or less a free-for-all of usually insensitive jokes. There are some key differences between how him or I might say something, and how you say it. For example, I might try to make you look like an idiot with sarcasm or wit, or I might say something you said
is idiotic or stupid, but I never say "you are wrong" or "you're a moron." That gets into personal attack territory, and quite honestly is as childish as that dumb video you posted in the other thread. The point of debate is to use logical arguments, or possibly rebut those arguments with opinions or facts, but in the end the discussion is supposed to be about the topic and not the people arguing.
Worse, you come out and say that "Well I think you were wrong, so your opinion is of no value to me." Then why the hell are you posting a response? You just don't say that kind of thing unless the person is just typing "LOLOLOL U NOOB!" and it is clear they aren't actually trying to make a point in the first place. Of course you should be passionate about your opinions and beliefs, and it is commendable, but discounting another person's thoughts because they are different than yours is pretty much as high as you can go hypocrisy wise, and you've done it a few times now. You might say I'm the same way, but if you look back through a good number of threads you will see me apologizing or changing my mind when someone offers a better idea or alternative, or explains themselves in that they meant something they wrote in a different way than the way I took it. In fact I think it happened twice in the English-only thread. There are some debates that I'm pretty firm on one side, but I do admit when I'm wrong/mistaken/undereducated/etc. You just discount the thought that you might be wrong completely.
Sitting there saying "arguing for English only is messed up and if you were a real sensible liberal you'd agree" doesn't bring any facts to the table, it is just your very biased opinion. Why is it messed up? You think it is because it segregates the country and keeps minorities down from what I can gather, but you never brought any real factual evidence to the table, just a personal anecdote and a dumb video, and when I pointed out how useless the video was, you sat and claimed it was just a joke after you already made serious points regarding it. I didn't see any real examples of your life and how keeping the language situation the way it is actually HELPS the country, whereas people in favor of making it the official language brought up a few points of how it could help (the fact that you could easily communicate with everyone else here being the obvious main point). Yet, you just consider everyone else as unintelligent and ignorant mongoloids who must be super-conservatives because they aren't as "enlightened" as you are. The irony is a lot of people think of me as a conservative over that thread, when in fact there are a lot of liberal ideals that I follow.
Quite honestly, you act as smug as the typical Apple fanboy when it comes to seeing yourself as superior because you are so "open minded" and "free thinking."
I might have my own faults and people don't see eye to eye with me a lot of the times, or see my wall of text posts and just say "TLDR" to themselves, but I never outright attack someone's character in a real debate. I can certainly be a jerk, egotistical, obnoxious, loud, etc. as well, but at least I am respectful of other people's opinions when they don't match my own (at least as much as I can be while trying to make them look wrong in a debate).