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> PC Spells, Should they be posted?
PC subpath spells
Should they be posted on Nexus Atlas?
Yes [ 55 ] ** [39.01%]
No [ 74 ] ** [52.48%]
Don't Care / Not Sure / Other [ 12 ] ** [8.51%]
Total Votes: 141
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PIEMINISTER
post Jul 7 2008, 09:15 PM
Post #181


Sa san
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if teachers make learning "fun", why the hell would so many people clammer tot their computers, consoles, drugs, sports, tv, friends etc when that "quitting bell" rings at the end of a school day when they could stay at school for another 5 hours and actually further their academic lives instead of a fake one?


Answer: Video games are intended to be fun.
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Vortextk
post Jul 7 2008, 11:03 PM
Post #182


Sam san
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The classes are fun if you involve a good little pk romp while teaching the basics of warriors and maybe how your path(let's say chongun) deals in pk type situations(rp ones, not carnage/bl). Or maybe you want to work on roleplaying so you have them roleplay stupid and goofy off the wall roles, but each person would try to really rp them seriously(roleplay goofy, but well done, if that makes sense), so then you can work back from roleplaying something easy to something harder.(Such as actual characters in the path)

It can easily be fun because you have all the rules of the game at your disposal. If I'm not busy, I always go to mage classes when they're being held. Nothing right now during event obviously but they did happen every now and then(seem to be more rare these days). Some were "Eh" borefests I just kind of sat through afk, catching up every few minutes on what was said, some were real fun. I was wasabi in my first one like...well, 2 or 3 years ago. When was yuri 74?

If you feel a classroom can't be fun, atleast you have interaction. What's better, 10 roleplay stories/poems/journal writings, or a mix of a few of those and actual interaction with other people in(or working to get in) the path? I mean, if you're complaining about a "classroom" feel, then what about the tons of writing you do already for subpaths? No comment?


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Guldar
post Jul 16 2008, 07:52 PM
Post #183


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I struggle with this issue. On the one hand, I really don't give a rosey rat's rectum whether the information is made public. To be perfectly honest, the underground movements have made this information easily accessible for years.

On the other hand, I still respect what the subpaths stand for from the idealist standpoint. The secretive nature that subpath secrets are/were treated with was not a function of elitism, but moreso a byproduct. People should choose their path based on the roleplay that they wish to develop for their character. Now, if you insist upon putting the cart before the horse, at least have the [content removed]ing decency to create, develop, and maintain your character's roleplay in such a manner that fits with the subpath that you join for the spells and other toys.
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Erucolindo
post Jul 16 2008, 08:00 PM
Post #184


Ee san
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---^

No reply needed. Pretty much exactly how I feel.... except for the rat rectum :-p


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Dritz
post Jul 17 2008, 02:19 AM
Post #185


Sam san
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Going back to spells and items. I don't agree on specifics being shared (ie stats or effects). However I think any spell or item a subpath gets should have a role-play basis and thus be explained in the subpath's scroll. In addition to that let's get rid of the secret scrolls in the kingdoms. Any subpath scroll should be purchasable at a library.

I think for some things secret scrolls are ok and that Kru should cater to that and offer to make public and walker/aspirant scrolls for each subpath. Things like spells and weapons should defiantly be explained in a 'public' scroll.


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Celindon
post Jul 17 2008, 02:57 PM
Post #186


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Well as amember of the diviner path I kinda think its sad that you think these spells are over powering any other paths....before the shamans "curse" spell was dumbed down that was a pretty powerful spell even if it was just roleplay reasons. I-ching reading isnt as amazing as everyone thinks, their fun to get but they dont drastically change somthing. Also with the invisible spell...the aethers are crap and the length isnt much better so its not like its somthing that overwhelms everything else...and if your in sire then your probably going to die anyways. Also the comments about Sarina are a bit ridiculous.

Subpath spells should be public knowledge in my book. There are plenty of screening process for people to get in, they have to do extensive role play to be able to join and then you cant get these spells without extensive quests/roleplay anyways so even if it is a deciding factor they still have to work hard to get them.



QUOTE(Euphoria @ Jan 4 2008, 02:32 PM) [snapback]46000[/snapback]

Im with rachel on this though some of the paths get EVERYTHING look at diviners rachel wont post the spells on NA but this is me posting on NF so get over it.

Trance- 5 way doze best spell for a mage who needs doze to kill with ferno

invisible - great for scum like winroute to walk into sire and cheap then
leave

see invis - best spell for the path period

i ching - actually roleplaying but this spell was huge before all the other
subpaths started get markings like ba gua and its needed to get a fate's blade which is the best pk weapon

I know I have to be missing something but those spells combined are the best spells for pk'ing and hunting as a mage wonder how sarina worked that out *wink* *wink*

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Michike
post Jul 19 2008, 08:58 PM
Post #187


Ee san
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I just would like to take this post to thank DM for reviving this thread. It is much needed that people rethink subpaths. It is much needed to rethink training and acceptance rules. It is much needed to rethink limitating policies if you want your path to flourish. In the end if you want Nexus to survive for at least another 10 years.

People are no longer in NPC subpaths for the huge hunting advantage. They are in them because PC paths are no fun to get in to, no fun to be in for them. When they reach the end of content they will quit. The advantage of subpaths is that they were created to provide true dynamic content, something of which you can not reach the end.

In that optic making spells and item stats available to the community might be a step in the good direction as it gives a positive message to all those people who do not read the forums. All those temporary players that play Nexus for a month or two, maybe three and get bored with it because they didn't find what exactly was the point of this game.

No matter how much we argue until we are blue because obviously those who want change are not the majority of forumusers. We can not change our poll vote, you can not change yours. All we can attempt to do is try to change your habbits, try to make you understand how we believe that Nexus could become a better place.


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SilentS
post Jul 20 2008, 02:09 AM
Post #188


Sa san
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QUOTE(Michike @ Jul 19 2008, 07:58 PM) [snapback]52668[/snapback]
No matter how much we argue until we are blue because obviously those who want change are not the majority of forumusers. We can not change our poll vote, you can not change yours. All we can attempt to do is try to change your habbits, try to make you understand how we believe that Nexus could become a better place.
That can basicly be said true to the opposite side as well. Both sides will have their thoughts and feelings on this. And both will state their cases to try and convince the other.

I have basicly given up repeating myself.


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Stryker
post Jul 20 2008, 03:05 AM
Post #189


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If Guides are doing their jobs right, who cares how many people know how great the spells are? No, I'm not saying a Guide's job is to keep someone out of the path because they can't fake it enough to get in, I'm saying a Guide's job is to teach the people they take on. I've yet to see a Guide that does that anymore (They were rare enough when Subpaths were still quality) but I don't really look anymore either. These days it seems like joining a Subpath consists of two things, waiting and winning Story contests.

Anyways, considering them to be secret is only partially true. Old players know 80% of the Subpath spells, but they're secret to the new players. That might not be a good thing either, I reckon most of them are told to join NPC if they ever hope to get stronger because let's face it, NPC still has an edge in hunting until late game (Unless I'm mistaken, I've never tested myself but from everything I'm told CR R6 is stronger than PC R6 and same goes for Cunning). After that, they'll probably join Barb, Diviner or Spy.

I guess I got a bit off topic, this turned more of an overall rant about Subpaths but personally I say they shouldn't be secret and not because I'm oh so curious about what a Path has but because I think people should know what's available to them. I think it might encourage them to put forth an effort and have some good experiences in the process rather than NPCing up to Oh San stats and getting a free pass.


[Edit] I don't mean to imply that people should join specifically for those nifty spells but these days it's pretty much inevitable so that should be accepted, but in the rare case where they would join for the RP but don't want to be hindered in other aspects of their character development, they should know what they're getting into.
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darkmaverick
post Jul 20 2008, 09:36 AM
Post #190


Oh san
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QUOTE(Michike @ Jul 19 2008, 09:58 PM) [snapback]52668[/snapback]

I just would like to take this post to thank DM for reviving this thread. It is much needed that people rethink subpaths. It is much needed to rethink training and acceptance rules. It is much needed to rethink limitating policies if you want your path to flourish. In the end if you want Nexus to survive for at least another 10 years.



I'm glad at least some current subpath members agree.

Making people stay outside for anywhere from 3 months to a year does absolutely nothing to promote roleplaying, and only serves to discourage them from trying to do so as a member of that path.

And Silent, you are just giving a run-around. Explaining that not everyone agrees may be a fact, but it isn't one that solves the problems. Irregardless of what anyone's opinion is, there are solutions and they will work no matter if people initially disagree or not.

If you aren't going to suggest solutions, then stop giving run around defenses about everything.

This is a no-spin zone!

I think it is very much a fact that the current methods are simply not working. If they were working, we wouldn't have seen the three hours of subpath member OOC spam that occurred during the BIA Invasion of the pirate island. This "extensive roleplaying training" that supposedly "weeds out" people just isn't happening, and it is because you guys don't actually train people, but send them on easter egg hunts, story writing contests, and make them sit around for months doing nothing.

The term 'weed out' shouldn't even be uttered by a subpath member.

People aren't applying to join the Navy SEALS.

They are applying to join a roleplaying club in a videogame.

If someone wants to join and they meet the requirements to join in your scroll, you bring them in.
You should not expect them to be the world's great roleplayer and have the coffee mug to prove it.

If they have never roleplayed before, you give them opportunities to learn how to roleplay, and you do so with respect towards them. You don't insult them, threaten them, treat them with suspicion, play mind games with them, and worst of all, purposely ignore them, and so forth until they just don't care anymore.

The only thing your methods discover is whether people have any sense of self-respect or worth and if they are willing to let strangers on the internet treat them like dang just to be apart of a group that doesn't even do its intended job anymore.


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Imabandage
post Jul 26 2008, 03:51 PM
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Theres positives and negatives to this.

I voted No.

My reasons why:
1. Like ecko said, people are going to look to paths with the spells that appeal best to them.
2. Subpaths have always had secrets, thats what makes them so popular.
3. Yes.. Most people know spells of most subpaths, but I must say there are some nobody has a clue about.. Trust me.

If spells were to be posted, It wouldnt be a huge deal... since yes most people know the spells. But to keep role-playing strong, technically, only subpaths should know their own spells. nobody else.

As for stats on subpaths items... Never to be posted.

,`, Bandage
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Vortextk
post Jul 26 2008, 04:38 PM
Post #192


Sam san
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QUOTE(Imabandage @ Jul 26 2008, 04:51 PM) [snapback]53599[/snapback]

My reasons why:
1. Like ecko said, people are going to look to paths with the spells that appeal best to them.


There are a ton of people that already do. Don't tell me you think a lot of buff people went barbarian, even when barbs had no rage, because they felt it was roleplay time? Or the fact that like 15 sa+ mana mages are diviners? The people that don't join for spells, still WOULD NOT join for spells. So where's the big deal happening at?

QUOTE(Imabandage @ Jul 26 2008, 04:51 PM) [snapback]53599[/snapback]

2. Subpaths have always had secrets, thats what makes them so popular.


What? I suppose, but what a stupid way to fake popularity.

QUOTE(Imabandage @ Jul 26 2008, 04:51 PM) [snapback]53599[/snapback]

3. Yes.. Most people know spells of most subpaths, but I must say there are some nobody has a clue about.. Trust me.


No one would know or actively care about personal roleplay spells(or spells that only affected that single player without any visable notice or cue to outside players, which probably don't do much if anything at all).

I gaurantee you the people joining subpaths for spells don't see a non purpose muse spell and go "OMG, I FOUND THE HACKZ PATH" as they do with some of the other paths ingame.


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darkmaverick
post Jul 26 2008, 04:47 PM
Post #193


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QUOTE(Imabandage @ Jul 26 2008, 04:51 PM) [snapback]53599[/snapback]

3. Yes.. Most people know spells of most subpaths, but I must say there are some nobody has a clue about.. Trust me.


I wouldn't be so confident about this. If the spell is learnable and someone has it, people have a variety of ways to learn about it; least of all is people gloating to their friends about what new thing they just got.

I've actually recorded quite a number of subpath spells by simply looking at user pages, and there's plenty of disgruntled ex-Guides running around to pry information out of if you are really determined.


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Zario
post Jul 26 2008, 05:47 PM
Post #194


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Maybe walker spells, but not guide spells. People already consider path spells before joining.

Why not guide spells? You don't want people trying to become guide just for the spells, and (I think) some of them are still kept underwraps. Maybe. I think that part is a bad idea, guides have to actually be dedicated, in my opinion.


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darkmaverick
post Jul 26 2008, 07:08 PM
Post #195


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QUOTE(Zario @ Jul 26 2008, 06:47 PM) [snapback]53621[/snapback]

Maybe walker spells, but not guide spells. People already consider path spells before joining.

Why not guide spells? You don't want people trying to become guide just for the spells, and (I think) some of them are still kept underwraps. Maybe. I think that part is a bad idea, guides have to actually be dedicated, in my opinion.


The majority of Guide spells are just brands, Forge <subpath item>, and minor upgrades to walker spells. Or the "spell that lets you see stats", which seems to appear in several subpaths under different names.

A few subpaths have service spells, like Engrave, I-Ching or Pardon.

I can only think of a few actually 'buff' Guide spells, and in actuality they have very, very limited uses. Like Onyon.

It's really not a big secret what you all have. This game has been around for ten years and for being around that long, it hasn't had that many updates. As soon as something new does comes out, everyone knows about it.


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Zario
post Jul 26 2008, 09:01 PM
Post #196


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QUOTE(darkmaverick @ Jul 26 2008, 08:08 PM) [snapback]53628[/snapback]

The majority of Guide spells are just brands, Forge <subpath item>, and minor upgrades to walker spells. Or the "spell that lets you see stats", which seems to appear in several subpaths under different names.

A few subpaths have service spells, like Engrave, I-Ching or Pardon.

I can only think of a few actually 'buff' Guide spells, and in actuality they have very, very limited uses. Like Onyon.

It's really not a big secret what you all have. This game has been around for ten years and for being around that long, it hasn't had that many updates. As soon as something new does comes out, everyone knows about it.


Maybe everyone knows all of the guide spells already. Maybe they have limited uses. That really doesn't mean they should be posted for all of the public to see.


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Vortextk
post Jul 26 2008, 09:04 PM
Post #197


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Because if everyone already knows the spell and it doesn't really do anything, keeping it an "official" secret saves face?


*Note:Not saying any guide spell like that is super publicized or even that this is a real situation. Just trying to figure out the logic behind this hypothetical situation...


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Falaris
post Jul 27 2008, 11:15 AM
Post #198


Oh san
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I think at this point, anyone who is worried that the type of person who would only join based on spells and thinks those type of people don't already know the spells is just fooling themselves or is incredibly naive.

This goes for guide spells as well.


-Falaris


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Scum
post Jul 27 2008, 02:34 PM
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I'd say a majority of the subpath spells are widely widely known. Is it really a secret that Barbarians can Townie and Rend? Is it really a secret that Geomancers can summon ice? Or even guides- do people really not know why Monk guides say "Ka~~!" every so often and a slash graphic appears?
To say people will join for spells... Read the top 250 mage list and tell me that doesn't happen now.

Frankly I think the answer to this is in a wonderful idea of Interstates. I can't remember where the full post is on it. I think on the subpath board. But basically a tiered subpath system where there is one step below Walker, and they have ability to get spells. I'll get a copy of the post if anyone is interested, a good idea.

In my opinion the "secret" of spells is an illusion. The only people who don't know subpath spells are the newbies.


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