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> Best Dps At High Stats?, SPOILER: It's not poets
Rokugo
post Sep 25 2008, 02:19 PM
Post #1


Ee san
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After reading a lot of the balance discussions, i was curious as to which path can really put out the best DPS, given all are at similiar experiences sold (NOTE: experiences sold, not stats), so I played with a few numbers. It might be of general interest, so I'll post it here. If you don't care about the methodology, feel free to skip to the results at the bottom.

Hokay, so the idea is each of these people is being cycled beyond perfection, for the purposes of simplification. This means that everyone's DPS is bumped up, but I'd say that it's almost by the same amount for each path, maybe warriors more than rogues and mages, since it's pretty much impossible to aether a buff warrior's zerks, while the biggest simplifying assumpion for rogues is that they get two full DAs, instead of the one that they get in reality.

So I used the following formula to calculate DPS (Not in any useful units, but all I care about is relative to other paths, so I will normalize at the end)
Vita DPS = Vita * sum[over attacks](vita multiplier/aethers)
Mana DPS = Mana * sum[over attacks](mana multiplier/aethers)

Obviously, it's pretty much impossible to perfectly aether many of these attacks (zerk for (buff) warrior, da/ls for rogues, hellfire for mages, and even ret for poets has 20s aethers according to NA, lower than the 23s aethers for invoke)

I used what I think of as the "high stats approximation" to get ratios for each path that equate to similiar experiences sold. I checked these with stataddict for decently high stats (~5m total stats sold), and they worked well. The approximation is as such: At very high stats, total experience sold is directly proportional to stat^2. I started with a rogue with a 3/1 ratio. So an entirely vita warrior would be sqrt(3^2+(2*1)^2) ~ 3.6. Obviously warriors have some mana, so this is a little bit of the built in error in this calculation. I have chose to ignore it because it doesn't add much to the damage of the warrior or to his total experience sold. Again, the purpose is to get a general idea, so if you don't like these simplifying assumptions, feel free to do a more rigorous analysis. I also chose a 1/1 ratio for the poets and mages.

Anyway, here are the results:
CODE

    warrior    rogue    mage    poet
vita    3.60    3.00    1.60    1.60
mana    0.00    1.00    1.60    1.60
vita DPS    0.74    0.50    0.00    0.00
mana DPS    0.00    0.20    0.39    0.03
total    0.74    0.70    0.39    0.03
normalized    1.00    0.94    0.53    0.04


So in this simple model rogues and warriors do approximately the same DPS. Mages do about half the DPS of either of them, and poets come in at about 1/25 of the damage of the two fighter paths.


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Hi, I'm Rokugo. You probably don't know me.
There is a 95% chance the above post is sarcasm and is not to be taken seriously.
I play Real Life to help escape NexusTK.
"Baby, for you I'd divide by zero" <--- My # 1 pickup line
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Horsham
post Oct 6 2008, 03:48 PM
Post #2


Peasant


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Does anybody still have the calculations sheets Yari et al did a while back, they were like MoreFighterAttacks.xls?

Within there he had information about various damages dealt for different stat ranges. Il/Ee/Sam/Sa/Oh, along with poet figures.

I ran some of my own and the general conclusion is that a 4/1 rogue versus a 10/1 warrior the rogue will kill 11 things as fast as the warrior kills 16 however the rogues kills are 80% stronger than the warriors (assuming every attack 1 hits, the rogue out damages the warrior 57/35). If we assume perfect overflow instead of only 1 hit kills, the warriors kills jump up to the incredible number of 33. However total damage done by the warrior is only 28% (73/57) more than the rogues damage total, and the warrior must have every attack be a perfect overflow for this advantage. Basically the rogue should be hunting somewhere much stronger than the warrior. The largest problem is that end game fighters are all trying to hunt in the same location. A 3m vita rogue shouldn't be in hunter3 anymore. They end up wasting most of their attack damage. The warrior would require 180% more healing per attack cycle than the rogue.

As true hunting happens somewhere between 100% kill and 100% overflow this means that the vita attacks are balanced, it is the hunting locations that are the problem.

The problem with balance is where swing damage far exceeds vita attack potential. The power of early cunnings and late rages are too high for the caves which they are in. Early rages need to be tweaked up, late rages tweaked down. I'd like to see the cost of rage changed with more of an emphasis on vita than mana, keep the approx. total stats the same but make it so that a warrior has to have like 400/80 for rage6 instead of going 160/140. This will make newly 99 warrior vita attacks more effective.

The final problem that needs to be addressed is keeping poets and mages in similar caves as equal stated rogues and warriors. Most of this problem is evident in vortex, where magicians are able to get into groups in their highest possible cave, while I can't foresee a good way to prevent this, by elevating the entry levels of vortex3 caves to closer to the stats that would be required to hunt there it may reduce the problem some. Increase the separation between caves, make Assn weak like Rabbit, but make Water strong like Dragon.
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