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Nexus Forums _ Nexus Polls _ Would You Collectivley Buy Nexus?

Posted by: MainAttraction Jul 26 2010, 04:01 PM

With Nexus sucking it up-- it's prime for a takeover. How much would you be willing to contribute to buy Nexus, make it free to play etc? I'm just cuious what the total would be. Be honest with your estimates as it would be interesting to see if we took x offer to Kru and to see what they said.

Posted by: Rachel Jul 26 2010, 04:09 PM

Even if that somehow happened, someone would still have to be in charge of it.

And so, nobody will do it.

Posted by: MainAttraction Jul 26 2010, 04:11 PM

I'd be fine if Allygator did it, I think everyone here would be fine with that too. She could relegate duties etc.

Posted by: Interstate Jul 26 2010, 05:14 PM

10-50k depending.

Posted by: Adam Jul 26 2010, 05:23 PM

I wouldn't be fine with Allygator to be the head of it. To be honest, I don't think she'd be in tune with the game mechanics and understand what players want enough to give some aspects of the game it's needed share of attention. Things she doesn't understand, she'd have no problem delegating, but then the issue arises over who she delegates to and how malleable her opinion is for who she ends up choosing.
No offense intended, of course, but that's just my opinion based on how much I know her over the forums.

I would not contribute money unless I had reason to believe that it will actually improve and change for the better. I'd want to either be a part of the project and enact on the game itself to make the changes I want to see, or I'd need to see evidence that the changes I want to see are in the right hands.

That being said, depending on the above variables, I'd donate any option of the polls and beyond.

Posted by: WestSideR Jul 26 2010, 05:43 PM

I heard kru bought it for 1m

Posted by: Rachel Jul 26 2010, 07:01 PM

She's basically done with Nexus right now..

Even if something like this were to draw her back, I think she might want to work on the game but wouldn't want the responsibility of running it.


But also, I don't think someone would want to put up $50,000 if they don't get either a decent amount of voting power or think they might somehow profit off the game. And if you only have 1000 people putting up an equal $100, I'm not so sure that would be enough to get Kru's attention (Unless you somehow got pretty much everyone to stop registering)

Even then, you don't really know what kind of agreement there is between Kru and Nexon and if something like this would even be remotely possible. Or maybe they wouldn't be willing/able to sell the rights to Nexus, but they could sell the whole company, which would mean even more issues.



So depending on how it would work, statistics we don't know (Past and present registration and kruna sales), the total price of purchase, etc., I would have to say...somewhere between $1 and $5000?

Posted by: Dritz Jul 26 2010, 07:24 PM

$0. If the game does die 'in two years' let it die.

Posted by: Alston Jul 26 2010, 08:08 PM

http://www.manta.com/c/mmdgmz6/kru-interactive...

As if anyone on these forums would want to pay nearly that much for control of the company.

Better question: Is this about Nexus or the whole company? I would suggest separating the poll into two for the reason that it seems Nexus is now accounting for less than 20% of Kru's net income.

Posted by: Adam Jul 26 2010, 11:06 PM

QUOTE (Alston @ Jul 26 2010, 07:08 PM) *
Better question: Is this about Nexus or the whole company? I would suggest separating the poll into two for the reason that it seems Nexus is now accounting for less than 20% of Kru's net income.


Nexus only. As in, the rights to buy Nexus from KRU.

Posted by: darkmaverick Jul 26 2010, 11:31 PM

QUOTE (Alston @ Jul 26 2010, 08:08 PM) *
http://www.manta.com/c/mmdgmz6/kru-interactive...


I'm sure NexusTK rakes in a sizable amount of cash, but I'd be extremely surprised if it's 1 million a year.

KRU would probably only sell it if it made more sense for them to sell it than to keep running it. I mean, they can run it on a skeleton crew like they are right now and still profit.

It'd probably be cheaper to just make your own game, and the engine and client would be capable of doing more since it doesn't have to support old code / databases.

That said, if someone wants to setup a fundraising project, well, I have a Kickstarter account and still have invites. I think anyone can also setup an IndieGoGo account but that's considerably more risky since the fund-raising goal doesn't have to be reached for IndieGoGo to charge donators.

With Kickstarter, if the full amount isn't reached nobody is charged.

There are several ways to allow people to vote on things. One way is to form a company and award voting stock to those who donate. Those with that stock can vote on every little decision the company makes, or they can vote to appoint / demote company officers who hold management positions (i.e. make the important decisions).

If such a thing happened I wouldn't be against contributing my game design knowledge, but I wouldn't be able to do that and handle the business management at the same time. Ultimately, anyone who would handle the business stuff shouldn't be the person making the gameplay decisions; not just because they are different skillsets, but because they are both very time consuming positions. Delegation would need to happen.

You'd also need to see if KRU is even willing to sell Nexus and what the price would be.

Posted by: LEET Jul 27 2010, 03:32 AM

I can think of about 5 people who currently play nexustk that can run it good.

And 2 that can run it even better solo that are ex-players.

Posted by: AllyGator Jul 27 2010, 03:26 PM

QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 26 2010, 05:23 PM) *
I wouldn't be fine with Allygator to be the head of it. To be honest, I don't think she'd be in tune with the game mechanics and understand what players want enough to give some aspects of the game it's needed share of attention. Things she doesn't understand, she'd have no problem delegating, but then the issue arises over who she delegates to and how malleable her opinion is for who she ends up choosing.
No offense intended, of course, but that's just my opinion based on how much I know her over the forums.

I would not contribute money unless I had reason to believe that it will actually improve and change for the better. I'd want to either be a part of the project and enact on the game itself to make the changes I want to see, or I'd need to see evidence that the changes I want to see are in the right hands.

That being said, depending on the above variables, I'd donate any option of the polls and beyond.


Amen to that! I have never paid any attention to game mechanics and I never intend to. You'd be better off having Rachel do that job. And Rachel is correct. I'm on a Nexus vacation right now. lalalala haven't signed onto the game in nearly a month

Posted by: Doctor Jul 27 2010, 03:53 PM

You'd have to buy it from Chinchin and Tigertiger first.

Posted by: Alston Jul 27 2010, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jul 26 2010, 09:31 PM) *
I'm sure NexusTK rakes in a sizable amount of cash, but I'd be extremely surprised if it's 1 million a year.

It isn't. The company makes $1 million annually. That's all their games.

As I stated before, NexusTK probably accounts for less than 20% of that.

Posted by: Alston Jul 27 2010, 04:26 PM

QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 26 2010, 09:06 PM) *
Nexus only. As in, the rights to buy Nexus from KRU.

Then I'd do it for $50,000 - $100,000.

You need four people to run the game:

Someone excelling in logistics and politics (and most likely the bankroll),
Someone excelling in programming and efficiency (especially with MUD and C Coding),
Someone excelling in customer relations (HR, announcements, Accounts, etc), and
Someone excelling in economics (managing in-game inventory, economy and events)

Otherwise, whoever would buy the rights would tank.

And I don't think Kru has the right to sell their license. They'd have to get Nexon's permission first... not exactly sure the deal they worked out so I'm just speculating here.

Posted by: darkmaverick Jul 27 2010, 04:34 PM

QUOTE (Alston @ Jul 27 2010, 04:26 PM) *
And I don't think Kru has the right to sell their license. They'd have to get Nexon's permission first... not exactly sure the deal they worked out so I'm just speculating here.


Contracts can be amended if both parties agree. The question is if they will.

Posted by: Alston Jul 27 2010, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jul 27 2010, 02:34 PM) *
Contracts can be amended if both parties agree. The question is if they will.

Exactly.

Makes you wonder if Kru would be willing to let go of the game, considering how little it's contributing to profits.

Posted by: Erucolindo Jul 28 2010, 05:33 PM

I'd pay $200 for legitimate (appropriate percentage of stock purchased) ownership in Nexus.

Posted by: stabme Aug 2 2010, 12:19 AM

if 1,000 of us pitched in $100 for it, we'd be able to collectively offer $100,000k. i'm sure kru makes more money than that from the game though. variable donations work best, though. i say we just donate money to [Content removed] and make that nexus the vision of what we want nexus to be. duh

Posted by: Coolboyman Aug 2 2010, 04:19 AM

I have $5,000 saved up, but nothing to spend it on... hmmmmmm....

Posted by: solman Aug 2 2010, 11:14 AM

Depends on who I would go with and the price and so forth and just how much of a saying I would have in the game, but i could donate 10k+. Would need to be able to throw some of my ideas to make TK more profitable and smoother tho. But at this current venture, id rather TK be ruined and out of biz. But that is only cause of the way Kru runs it and does their biz practices.

Posted by: Winder Aug 3 2010, 10:25 PM

Realistically you have to assume nexus is making AT LEAST 1000 x 12 x 15 dollars in revenue (not profit) per year (I figure people spend on average 5 a month on Kruna -Most spend nothing, and then there are crazies who spend like 50 tongue.gif). There are definitely at least 1000 accounts left in order to have 300 people online most of the time. Keep in mind this is a low estimate.

Typically an offer for an asset that is experiencing either no (or negative) growth would go for 2-3x yearly revenues (around 180,000). Kru would be stupid to take an offer under 500,000 for Nexus.

Therefore, in this case DM is right, it would be far more cost-effective to make a new game. You can pretty much copy 90% of Nexus (in terms of ideas, how you make the game look, storyline, etc.) because the game is based on Korean history, which everyone has free reign over and copyrights don't protect generic things such as plate mail, war axes, and earning karma for good deeds... lol

Posted by: Auxy Aug 3 2010, 11:18 PM

id buy nexus and make mug the gm again!!!

Posted by: Winder Aug 3 2010, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Auxy @ Aug 4 2010, 12:18 AM) *
id buy nexus and make mug the gm again!!!


I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Rachel's trigger-happy modding, where did it go sad.gif

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 4 2010, 02:55 AM

QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 3 2010, 10:25 PM) *
You can pretty much copy 90% of Nexus (in terms of ideas, how you make the game look, storyline, etc.) because the game is based on Korean history, which everyone has free reign over and copyrights don't protect generic things such as plate mail, war axes, and earning karma for good deeds... lol


You can do more than that. You can copy every game mechanic to the letter.

Game mechanics cannot be copyrighted. In some cases they can be patented, but it'll only hold up in court if you're the first person to come up with that type of mechanic. NexusTK's game mechanics are very heavily derived from Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm pretty sure Nexon can't patent them.

And even if they did have one, it would have expired by now.

Posted by: Rachel Aug 4 2010, 06:03 AM

QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 3 2010, 10:25 PM) *
AT LEAST 1000 x 12 x 15 dollars in revenue (not profit) per year (I figure people spend on average 5 a month on Kruna -Most spend nothing, and then there are crazies who spend like 50 tongue.gif). There are definitely at least 1000 accounts left in order to have 300 people online most of the time. Keep in mind this is a low estimate.


I made a quick (very) count of the user pages, it showed about 2610 characters. That means at least 650 accounts. I wouldn't think more than 10% of players wouldn't have a user page at all, so I would guess around 725 registered accounts currently.

Even though a lot of Kruna gets spent, you have to remember they give out lots of free kruna too. Are there seriously people paying $50 a month, every month? I wouldn't think many.

Then there are people who come and go, or sometimes let their registrations lapse for a few days.

If you did 725 x 11.8 x 12.5, you're down to 107,000. (And dropping..) But we really have no idea.


QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 3 2010, 11:49 PM) *
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Rachel's trigger-happy modding, where did it go sad.gif


Clearly, I can't win. dry.gif

Posted by: Winder Aug 4 2010, 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Rachel @ Aug 4 2010, 07:03 AM) *
I made a quick (very) count of the user pages, it showed about 2610 characters. That means at least 650 accounts. I wouldn't think more than 10% of players wouldn't have a user page at all, so I would guess around 725 registered accounts currently.

Even though a lot of Kruna gets spent, you have to remember they give out lots of free kruna too. Are there seriously people paying $50 a month, every month? I wouldn't think many.

Then there are people who come and go, or sometimes let their registrations lapse for a few days.

If you did 725 x 11.8 x 12.5, you're down to 107,000. (And dropping..) But we really have no idea.




Clearly, I can't win. dry.gif


I'm pretty sure you could still make a game similar to Nexus for less than you could buy it, even if Nexus was only worth 200-300,000 tongue.gif (There's really no point in arguing how many accounts are left haha)

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 4 2010, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 4 2010, 07:18 AM) *
I'm pretty sure you could still make a game similar to Nexus for less than you could buy it, even if Nexus was only worth 200-300,000 tongue.gif (There's really no point in arguing how many accounts are left haha)


You definitely could.

http://www.bigworldindie.com/index/index.php

Indie license is 299$ annual fee and 10% royalty on gross earnings, and you just need to keep below 10k subscribers (i.e. Nexus).

Get some of the uber talented pixel artists of Nexus together to make original graphics and uber talented programmers, and you have the building blocks to make your own Nexus clone. It'd probably be a more reliable server, too. And you can have particle effects for special attacks, lighting, maps, etc. Go one step further and get some people who know 3D Studio Max and Maya (they are dime a dozen these days; hell, I'm taking a class this fall) and do the graphics in 3D.

Posted by: Winder Aug 4 2010, 03:21 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 4 2010, 01:15 PM) *
You definitely could.

http://www.bigworldindie.com/index/index.php

Indie license is 299$ annual fee and 10% royalty on gross earnings, and you just need to keep below 10k subscribers (i.e. Nexus).

Get some of the uber talented pixel artists of Nexus together to make original graphics and uber talented programmers, and you have the building blocks to make your own Nexus clone. It'd probably be a more reliable server, too. And you can have particle effects for special attacks, lighting, maps, etc. Go one step further and get some people who know 3D Studio Max and Maya (they are dime a dozen these days; hell, I'm taking a class this fall) and do the graphics in 3D.


This isn't really appropriate for what we would be trying to do. You could make a game that "looks" like Nexus, but it would not play similarly to Nexus in any way shape or form. There are a lot of tools out there for doing this sort of thing, most of them free, but BigWorldIndie wouldn't fit.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 4 2010, 05:31 PM

QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 4 2010, 03:21 PM) *
This isn't really appropriate for what we would be trying to do. You could make a game that "looks" like Nexus, but it would not play similarly to Nexus in any way shape or form. There are a lot of tools out there for doing this sort of thing, most of them free, but BigWorldIndie wouldn't fit.


Uh, what? You could make it play similar to Nexus, even if it was 3D. Just make the camera always look from an overhead bird's eye view. You can also make it so the game doesn't require "locking on" targets, and character movement is controlled with the directional pad and you use spacebar / a to melee attack, and spells from the 1-0 keys. Attempts to attack look for if there is any NPCs occupying a space, which can be narrowed down to whatever is right in front of the character. If you want to be particularly anal you can make it so characters only move in straight lines, never diagonal.

I mean, really. Nexus combat is basically just Zelda with AD&D armor class for character defense, some special skills that consume a % of a resource and deal damage by a % of a resource, and cooldowns on attacks (which is just "attack cannot be used until x seconds have passed"). Any game engine can do that. You could build Nexus in freakin Game Maker, even (though it wouldn't be able to support a lot of players).

And if "other free tools" you mean something like Playerworlds, think again. You might as well build your own game engine. Last I knew it's not exactly stable and can't support a lot of online players.

But really, if you're gonna invest into making your own game, you should reach for something a little higher than Nexus-style gameplay.

Personally, I would make something either like Atlantica Online but with Romancing SaGa party chain combo attacks and a FFT Job system, -OR- something City of Heroes-ish but based in my Deathfist Ninja GKaiser world (so players in supergroups can, for example, build their own Voltron to roll around town fighting giant robots with, and fewer powersets to keep things better balanced but huge emphasis on customizing what the powers look like so any concept character can be created).

A fantasy ancient Korea themed MMORPG is all over the market because most MMORPGs come from South Korea and they are obsessed with sticking their historical culture into everything. The only reason I'd ever want to make something like that would be to show KRU how it should be done. Otherwise I think it'd be harder to market the game.

Posted by: Winder Aug 4 2010, 05:45 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 4 2010, 06:31 PM) *
Uh, what? You could make it play similar to Nexus, even if it was 3D. Just make the camera always look from an overhead bird's eye view. You can also make it so the game doesn't require "locking on" targets, and character movement is controlled with the directional pad and you use spacebar / a to melee attack, and spells from the 1-0 keys. Attempts to attack look for if there is any NPCs occupying a space, which can be narrowed down to whatever is right in front of the character.

I mean, really. Nexus combat is basically just Zelda with AD&D armor class for character defense, some special skills that consume a % of a resource and deal damage by a % of a resource, and cooldowns on attacks (which is just "attack cannot be used until x seconds have passed"). Any game engine can do that.

And if "other free tools" you mean something like Playerworlds, think again. You might as well build your own game engine. Last I knew it's not exactly stable and can't support a lot of online players.

But really, if you're gonna invest into making your own game, you should reach for something a little higher than Nexus-style gameplay.


I am referring more to open source game engines or toolkits to build your own engine more quickly. BigWorldIndie's constraints for non-commercial projects would truly make it difficult to make a similar game and make it successful. The limitations go beyond even the shoddy NexusScript tongue.gif

Also, I always considered 2D one of the things that made Nexus different, but that point is more personal preference.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 4 2010, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Winder @ Aug 4 2010, 05:45 PM) *
I am referring more to open source game engines or toolkits to build your own engine more quickly. BigWorldIndie's constraints for non-commercial projects would truly make it difficult to make a similar game and make it successful. The limitations go beyond even the shoddy NexusScript tongue.gif

Also, I always considered 2D one of the things that made Nexus different, but that point is more personal preference.


Don't get me wrong, I tend to prefer 2D, too. But 3D has the advantage of being easy to make content for. 2D requires an artist to literally draw every frame. 3D only requires someone to make a model that can be outfitted with animation rigs and easily skinned. The content is much more reusable and this makes it much easier to make new clothing / weapons and have them look different, and allow players to customize their characters appearance in ways that would take months of work for a 2D artist team to do. You can also make small adjustments to a character's animation to let them do a wide variety of anything without needing to completely redraw every frame for every possible clothing combination.

If I had a successful company with the ability to hire dozens of artist, I would make a 2D game. Just starting out I would make a 3D game because it's faster and easier to make content for.

Anyway, if someone wanted to use that engine they'd need to know Python. You can see screenshots of the builder here

http://mmorpgmaker.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=10152

Posted by: SungKen Aug 5 2010, 08:19 PM

up to 10,000 USD. ONLY if I had a reasonable chunk of running the game, preferably the advertising side.

Posted by: Laren Aug 7 2010, 04:54 AM

Would I help to COLLECTIVELY buy Nexus? Hell no. There's no way the new "owners" of the game could agree on priorities or what direction to take the game in. It would be a clusterf%$#. That said, if I had a few extra millions of dollars lying around, I might personally buy it.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 7 2010, 11:22 AM

QUOTE (Laren @ Aug 7 2010, 04:54 AM) *
Would I help to COLLECTIVELY buy Nexus? Hell no. There's no way the new "owners" of the game could agree on priorities or what direction to take the game in. It would be a clusterf%$#. That said, if I had a few extra millions of dollars lying around, I might personally buy it.


You haven't read the whole thread, have you?

Depending on how a company was setup, everyone wouldn't have to agree on everything. They would simply need to agree to vote on important issues.


Posted by: Alston Aug 7 2010, 11:30 AM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 4 2010, 03:51 PM) *
If I had a successful company with the ability to hire dozens of artist, I would make a 2D game.

Just find a lot of volunteers that would help build one.

Lots of game mods out there (several turning into successful franchises of their own) started with a gang of volunteers.

Once you get popular enough, launch it as a product and start reimbursing your volunteers with the profits.... time well invested.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 7 2010, 01:08 PM

Volunteer projects are very hard to organize over the internet without having massive breakdown of egos and communication, or people simply deciding to do something else with their free time like play WoW. I'm speaking from experience here.

It's not impossible, but you can certainly make life easier on yourself by making the game 3D instead of 2D because it cuts down the amount of time people are expected to spend creating free art content. If you want to take on the monumental task of creating an MMORPG then you should try to make development go as efficiently as possible so the project actually gets completed.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 7 2010, 03:53 PM

Or you could just create a private server of nexus and funnel subscriptions through a laundering service totally unrelated to the game and get away with it!

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 7 2010, 06:47 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 7 2010, 03:53 PM) *
Or you could just create a private server of nexus and funnel subscriptions through a laundering service totally unrelated to the game and get away with it!


I think it's now impossible to get away with any crime committed over the internet. The trail is too easy to find.

NEXON might turn a blind eye to a severely low population private server of Baram that isn't for profit. They won't turn a blind eye if they find out it's for profit.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 7 2010, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 7 2010, 04:47 PM) *
I think it's now impossible to get away with any crime committed over the internet. The trail is too easy to find.

NEXON might turn a blind eye to a severely low population private server of Baram that isn't for profit. They won't turn a blind eye if they find out it's for profit.

Well what do you think about this:

Buy the rights to the old graphics of nexus, program the game, release it as a browser MMO.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 8 2010, 02:01 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 7 2010, 10:06 PM) *
Well what do you think about this:

Buy the rights to the old graphics of nexus, program the game, release it as a browser MMO.


I think it's a dumb idea because the only reason anyone likes the old Nexus graphics is for a purely sentimental reason. The cost of licensing the graphics would not be worth it.


Posted by: MainAttraction Aug 8 2010, 08:38 PM

The old graphics are superior to the new ones; Chimese Wind.

Posted by: MeduLLA Aug 22 2010, 01:35 PM

Not sure how much I would donate at the moment, but you could do a system of voting on issues similar to that of how large companies do with stock holders. Depending on how much you donate or spend on the game would depend on how many votes you would have on major issues. Voting could be on everything including GM's and support staff.

Just an idea?

Posted by: Alston Aug 22 2010, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (MeduLLA @ Aug 22 2010, 11:35 AM) *
Not sure how much I would donate at the moment, but you could do a system of voting on issues similar to that of how large companies do with stock holders. Depending on how much you donate or spend on the game would depend on how many votes you would have on major issues. Voting could be on everything including GM's and support staff.

Just an idea?

Dumb idea. The rich, elitest few that have their own ideas on how to run things would manage to monopolize such a system and thus would run nexus their way. The difference between donating and owning stock is that you have an invested interest in the company's success and are more likely to make choices more geared toward that success... instead of choosing what you and your small clique want.

Posted by: Logan Aug 27 2010, 06:55 PM

Why would anyone invest anything in this game? It's a fossil! There are so many options out there today that even if this game went f2p, it would be no better off.

This game was magical once. But now it's like an old, old thing begging to be taken off of life support.

Why can't you guys just let it go?


Posted by: Doctor Aug 27 2010, 09:55 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 8 2010, 12:01 PM) *
I think it's a dumb idea because the only reason anyone likes the old Nexus graphics is for a purely sentimental reason. The cost of licensing the graphics would not be worth it.

That's like saying people play farmville for the graphics. People don't play nexus for the graphics.

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 1 2010, 01:33 AM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 27 2010, 09:55 PM) *
That's like saying people play farmville for the graphics. People don't play nexus for the graphics.


The difference is that the makers of Farmville did not pay a quarter of a million dollars for those graphics.

Posted by: Doctor Sep 1 2010, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 31 2010, 11:33 PM) *
The difference is that the makers of Farmville did not pay a quarter of a million dollars for those graphics.

I don't think the old nexustk graphics would cost 250k.

Posted by: WestSideR Sep 2 2010, 03:26 PM

I heard KRU bought it for 1m+ doll hairs.

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 3 2010, 05:57 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Sep 1 2010, 01:22 PM) *
I don't think the old nexustk graphics would cost 250k.


Licensing generic sound and music libraries can cost that much. What do you think licensing a library of graphics from another game is gonna cost?

Posted by: Ace Sep 6 2010, 11:41 PM

Nope.

Posted by: Falaris Sep 7 2010, 02:33 PM

Just because licensing costs for extremely professional sounds and graphics CAN cost a certain amount, doesn't mean that the final price would be anything remotely close to that for a 10+ year old game. I've heard varying estimates for licensing fees in the past from people with at least some knowledge of it, and I don't think I have ever heard any number breaking $100,000 (or close at all to that) even at its height. Now we are in a down economy and the game is only that much older.

For the record I could also be totally wrong since I cannot verify those numbers whatsoever, but even then I think some of the numbers being thrown around are grossly inflated based on my own research and discussions with companies for licensing costs for engines, graphics, sounds, etc. back when I was trying to get funding for the game Airadine and I were designing.

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 8 2010, 11:11 PM

So far, based on the poll, if all 35 people donated what they claimed they would, $4,440 could be raised.

BigWorldIndie Source is $2,999

http://indie.bigworldtech.com/index/index.php#indie

Food for thought.

Posted by: WestSideR Sep 9 2010, 02:43 AM

big indo.. what?

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 9 2010, 03:24 AM

Big World Indie. I mentioned it on the previous page. It's a turnkey MMORPG engine, client and server. Uses 3D Studio Max for creating the graphical assets, the client is Python and the server source code is C++.

Posted by: JaydePhoenix Sep 11 2010, 01:11 AM

Buying that would be a much better route to take.
You'd be much less constrained in what you could and could not do. The only drawback in my eyes, is the need for 3DS Max. As far as I'm concerned, that's a negative. However, most games use 3DS Max, so it's generally unavoidable.

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 11 2010, 05:21 PM

QUOTE (JaydePhoenix @ Sep 11 2010, 01:11 AM) *
Buying that would be a much better route to take.
You'd be much less constrained in what you could and could not do. The only drawback in my eyes, is the need for 3DS Max. As far as I'm concerned, that's a negative. However, most games use 3DS Max, so it's generally unavoidable.


Yeah, 3D Studio Max is pretty much the standard, and it's expensive software. However, anyone who knows how to use it has access to it. You're not going to find 3DS Max artists who don't have a copy already. There is a student copy for like $200
I think, and while you're not supposed to use it for commercial projects.....anyway, I plan to take a class in it next semester, although to be honest, looking at video tutorials I could probably teach myself.

Posted by: Rachel Sep 11 2010, 06:18 PM

I would pay $0 for ownership of a game that isn't Nexus that I could never make a profit on.

Posted by: JaydePhoenix Sep 12 2010, 12:31 AM

I would pay $0 for any version of Nexus, regardless of whether or not I could make a profit on it.
I lost my desire to fix other people's completely broken rubbish, and show them how it should have been run. Long ago.
laugh.gif

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 12 2010, 05:54 PM

QUOTE (JaydePhoenix @ Sep 12 2010, 12:31 AM) *
I would pay $0 for any version of Nexus, regardless of whether or not I could make a profit on it.
I lost my desire to fix other people's completely broken rubbish, and show them how it should have been run. Long ago.
laugh.gif


That's kind of how I feel, too.

The Nexus game engine is also very limiting. At least with a 3D engine you could have characters do basic things like sit and jump regardless of what armor and items they have equipped and not have to literally redraw the whole image. You could still lock the camera so it's an overhead view, and with cell shaded characters you can retain the anime-ish style. I'm positive maps can still be 2D images (hell, it might actually be better because you could have full screen artwork, like backgrounds in Legend of Mana).


Posted by: JaydePhoenix Sep 14 2010, 01:54 AM

It's really not that much more work to build the maps in 3D, though, if you're looking to make a Nexus-ish game. In fact, it could very well be faster and easier, depending on the modeler. The same goes with objects.
I've toyed with the idea of using the UDK or something similar to build a game that's sort of a cross between Nexus and Ultima Online in the past, but it always seems a daunting task to take on when I look at my lack of free time, or suitable spare cash flow. The other problem, of course, is reigning in the urge to keep adding more to the design all the time. dry.gif

Posted by: darkmaverick Sep 14 2010, 02:37 AM

QUOTE (JaydePhoenix @ Sep 14 2010, 01:54 AM) *
It's really not that much more work to build the maps in 3D, though, if you're looking to make a Nexus-ish game. In fact, it could very well be faster and easier, depending on the modeler. The same goes with objects.


I would use 3D cell shaded characters against hand drawn /pre-rendered 2D backgrounds as a style choice to make the game more visually interesting (Square was very fond of the technique in many of their PS1-PS2 titles). Interactive objects like chests and stuff would need to be 3D. I hear the technique also has the advantage of being less RAM / bandwidth heavy than the backgrounds being 3D, which helps since MMORPGs are played over the net and PVP events can be really RAM / bandwidth intensive.

QUOTE
I've toyed with the idea of using the UDK or something similar to build a game that's sort of a cross between Nexus and Ultima Online in the past, but it always seems a daunting task to take on when I look at my lack of free time, or suitable spare cash flow. The other problem, of course, is reigning in the urge to keep adding more to the design all the time. dry.gif


The best way to handle "design bloat" is to plan out the releases years in advance. Basically, treat it like TSR / Wizard treats new versions of D&D; you start with the basic, minimum amount of rules needed to play. Then you release a supplement book with a bunch of new classes, items, and misc. systems, and the periodic release of new adventure modules. That's the model MMORPG expansions descend from.

I have a tabletop RPG I've been working on for a couple years. It started as an SRD based version of NexusTK, but it's now a heavily modified OGL game that uses 2d6, has an NPC scaling system (similar to Oblivion), a point buy system for item construction, and character classes with a talent system. Distance is abstract, not unlike Mutants and Masterminds (so it doesn't require maps and minis; I wanted the game to be forum play friendly), but parties are based in Formations (like, say, earlier FF games) and there are benefits for characters who occupy certain positions in a formation. The party itself is also treated as its own entity; it can gain experience and players have the option to invoke party skills. There is also tons of flavor text things because the default setting is based on a novel I wrote.

Anyway, the full rule book would be over 600 pages. I've cut the rules into separate books; Beginner's Handbook, which has rules for characters 1-5; Advanced that has rules for 5-20 (basically the skills for 5-20 and optional Flaws / Defects for customizing characters, along with new races and classes); and the Monster / NPC Book. I also have a GM's Handbook, because my game is targeted at middle schoolers / high schoolers who may have never played this type of game before and will need a guide specifically for DMing.

But I know what the content all will be from the start. I have a folder called "expansions" which includes my notes for new setting info, classes, misc. systems and adventure modules. None of it is fleshed out; I'll get to it later once the most vital things are completed. The important thing is that I know where the design is going and what steps to release content in. It also means the "intro" stuff will be more focused for new players and be representative of the gameplay they will have. It's nice to have lots of systems but overwhelming players with options from the start just makes the game harder to learn. (Actually one of the big things stopping me from releasing it is trying to find someone to make online tools for the game; I think to succeed in the tabletop rpg market today you need to supply the players with free digital tools for rolling new characters, building npcs, items, random loot tables, random encounters, etc etc. Since 4th edition D&D the expectations have raised considerably).


If I was to design a fantasy MMORPG, I would have the level 1-99 content (which would be quest-driven leveling, not grinding on trash mobs), the first endgame raid, and one guild PVP event as the launch content. The game would be designed with a reincarnation system not unlike Ragnarok Online, so the level 1-99 content remains relevant and repeated-able, though new releases would have some new reincarnation-only character dungeons and quests.

Anyway, the next release patch would be new endgame raids that build on the first, additional pvp events which build on the first, and clean up any design flaws from the 1-99 content. And I'd basically just keep building new content on top of the existing content, so endgame players transition from the older content to the new, while that older content remains required for new players to consume as they climb up the ladder. Eventually the game has all the things you wanted it to have.

Posted by: Akidoshi Sep 14 2010, 03:20 PM

I'd happily offer $2k for a seat on the board and a sweet legend mark. God knows I've paid a quarter of that in kruna already. No regret btw.

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