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> What Stagnation Looks Like, Data from November '16
Gerdi
post Dec 14 2016, 04:17 PM
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halombobtk
post Dec 15 2016, 01:55 AM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Dec 14 2016, 12:03 AM) *
"Your point is moot" is a common expression when someone makes a statement that has no relevance to the topic being discussed. There is vast consensus on this.

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions...e-point-is-moot

"The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate.

But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean "of no significance or relevance." Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value."


So, don't look for an alternate use of the phrase that nobody has been using since the 1800s, and focus on the one people actually use today. That is how it was meant and you know that.

Of course, I do understand you would prefer to engage in arguments of semantics because you cannot prove your main point -- that there is demand for a second NexusTK server. But I am not willing to chase you around in circles while you make semantical arguments because it's just a derailment.

The irony here is so lost on you.
QUOTE
You are not saying that NexusTK needs a second server using the same mechanics and content it has right now. You want to scrap substantial amounts of the content so it goes back to an earlier build of the game. "Retro server" is just a placeholder for what you want, because writing it out as I just did is too many words all the time. So stop trying to act like this isn't your main argument by focusing on the semantics of what you believe "retro server" could mean, and focus on what it actually means in the context of this discussion.

I've said repeatedly (and I'm saying it again, right now) that I'd be fine with a direct clone of the current server. The point is simply that a bunch of people need to get excited about playing and subbing at the same time. In this regard, a blank slate is more important than it being retro or not, even though I still believe that a retro server would be an easier sell and more enjoyable for casual fans of NTK who haven't played much, if at all, since the mid '00s. Those players represent a large and extremely important market segment if the game is ever going to grow again. Somehow, I'm guessing you'll still find a way to get mad about this paragraph.
QUOTE
Also, just because I don't quote your entire posts doesn't mean I am not responding to your posts. I already gave satisfactory responses to all statements you've made.

Nope. You still haven't addressed any of this despite me calling you out on it - here goes, for a third time:
We both know there is a delicate balance between aspects of a game being too easy and too hard. Games must feel rewarding. When you click on an NPC and it just gives you items for logging in, that's the equivalent of a win button. It's not compelling at all and leads to boredom, especially when you factor in the items flooding the market and becoming worthless. There has to be some modicum of challenge, even if it's simply holding spacebar and timing vita attacks. There's nothing therapeutic about afking in a room and waiting to click on an NPC, but that is what the current server, which you're so convinced is superior to a rollback, has come to. It's like a bad mobile game now, and has been for months. Wony obv has no idea what he's doing, which just strengthens my argument for leaning on the old content.
And you never will. You know I'm right and you'd rather lie and pretend you've addressed it than admit that I'm right about something. Hell, you're probably even going to include this as an example of bad game design in your book, but here you are again, effectively arguing that daily coins are positive for the game and championing all the wonderful new content from the past 10 years.
QUOTE
For purposes of brevity I chose to not quote block your entire essay and instead focus on the crux of your arguments. I am not going to sit here and respond line by line to your earlier rant, nor am I going to go around in circles with you about dopamine releases and game design mechanics. My prior response about how the research is still greatly lacking and is not understood to the point we can make accurate statements like you are trying to, still stands.

Companies like Blizzard haven't done significant research into what works and doesn't work in game design? Rofl. They are masters of dopamine scheduling without needing to know anything about neuroscience. Once again, you're missing the point completely and displaying more evidence that you'd rather fixate on semantics. The hypocrisy is palpable. You're the KING of pointless semantic arguments on this forum. Just read your post history! It's a big part of why everyone hates you here. If you weren't aware, DM is a dirty acronym, and it's not because you peddle unpopular opinions like me - you're just a huge douchebag.
QUOTE
You don't have a list! What are you even arguing here?

Those reddit comments from 10 people did not constitute a list? Looked pretty list-like to me. What are you even arguing here? I caught you in a contradiction and now you're trying to weasel out of it. So DM-esque!
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Doctor
post Dec 15 2016, 03:01 AM
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Hijack
post Dec 15 2016, 08:28 AM
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this thread is cancer
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OwnageII
post Dec 15 2016, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Dec 15 2016, 02:55 AM) *
Companies like Blizzard haven't done significant research into what works and doesn't work in game design? Rofl. They are masters of dopamine scheduling without needing to know anything about neuroscience. Once again, you're missing the point completely and displaying more evidence that you'd rather fixate on semantics. The hypocrisy is palpable. You're the KING of pointless semantic arguments on this forum. Just read your post history! It's a big part of why everyone hates you here. If you weren't aware, DM is a dirty acronym, and it's not because you peddle unpopular opinions like me - you're just a huge douchebag.


So you think the company that is "master of dopamine scheduling" (that lost millions and millions of subs to the point where they no longer report it since wrath) knows best?

How about when they completely refused to do a Vanilla server and shut down Nostralius?
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Songa
post Dec 15 2016, 01:02 PM
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Anyway...

How exactly would a retro server work? Would it just be to start over or whatever? I feel like a part of what makes NexusTK unique is the interaction with players (the subpaths, clans, etc.) I mean...you can just make a newbie character if you want to level up and start over? I'm not really understanding the purpose of a new server. It would be interesting to have the opportunity to start a brand new clan or subpath from scratch but I personally would never play a server without those features. It was a big part of me continuously playing the game.

(I also skimmed most of the conversation because--dear god--it's long and boring.) tongue.gif
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Xing-Yu Seong
post Dec 15 2016, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (Songa @ Dec 15 2016, 12:02 PM) *


Anyway...

How exactly would a retro server work? Would it just be to start over or whatever? I feel like a part of what makes NexusTK unique is the interaction with players (the subpaths, clans, etc.) I mean...you can just make a newbie character if you want to level up and start over? I'm not really understanding the purpose of a new server. It would be interesting to have the opportunity to start a brand new clan or subpath from scratch but I personally would never play a server without those features. It was a big part of me continuously playing the game.

(I also skimmed most of the conversation because--dear god--it's long and boring.) tongue.gif


From the gist of the general conversation, what I can gather is that a retro server constitutes:
Current graphics, but removal of any content, story post-2003. So, return to Mythic-only central hub, Pre-Quota Subpaths, etc.
Being a new server, everyone would start over, meaning Jadespear and Ironheart would need to be restored because Tangun, or even the old Tutorial with the questionnaire and Soothe, would be too new.

It would also mean that the Subpaths would have to be re-established per the Archons.
Yuri an Senshi would be Kings again, Nagnang would still possibly be an NPC kingdom, Pre-Blight Invasion? I can't remember that timeline for 4.0...
However, it is also mentioned that a Clean Slate isn't absolutely necessary, so basically going back to Mythic and maybe adding new tiers is a possibility.

It's confusing.
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WereWulf
post Dec 15 2016, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Dec 15 2016, 01:55 AM) *
You're the KING of pointless semantic arguments on this forum. Just read your post history! It's a big part of why everyone hates you here. If you weren't aware, DM is a dirty acronym, and it's not because you peddle unpopular opinions like me - you're just a huge douchebag.


Halombobtk throughout this entire debate DM has been perfectly honest, principled and inviting... however you have been a complete jerk to DM. If anyone in this debate is being the douchebag it's you.

DM new title is the halombobtk killer. On behalf of DM... Halombobtk, go kick a tree good sir.


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Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?
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SilentS
post Dec 15 2016, 06:13 PM
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What Stagnation Looks Like.............

This thread. Same things said over and over from both sides.

Give it up, while a small handful might enjoy a retro server, there are not enough players to make it worth while or sustainable. People would move on quickly, realizing it is not as fun as what they once thought. Especially if there is an even lower player base than what Nexus currently has.


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Mazel
post Dec 15 2016, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (halome @ Jan 4 2009, 9:40 PM) *
Mazel's post was three sentences that included a "your mom" joke. The meat of his post referenced how a new server wouldn't work because too many former players have significant others, which is just goddamn ridiculous. Having significant others might even improve the chances for a new server since they have the potential to introduce them to the game. Also, can't really ignore the fact that MMO players skew heavily toward being single with lots of spare time.


I'm just so proud someone said my name! smile.gif One cool part of Nexus is getting famous. We all know Songa is famous for eating babies, and DarkMaverick is famous for having a video game review channel and posting on www.nexusforums.com!


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halombobtk
post Dec 15 2016, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE
Halombobtk throughout this entire debate DM has been perfectly honest, principled and inviting... however you have been a complete jerk to DM. If anyone in this debate is being the douchebag it's you.

I guess you missed the part where I responded to every single statement he made, while he ignored half of mine and fixated on the trivial things he could rebut without having to agree with me on the more important parts. If you don't know why that's infuriating, you must also suck at debates.

@Doctor's signature - dude is not a doctor, nor does he get jokes. Misses the joke, then puts it in his signature. Yikes. Every person who has ever used autism as a way to slight someone online is the same.

@Everyone - thanks for reminding me that playing this game again would be a surefire way to surround myself with a bunch of degenerates. Probably not the best choice to make. I think I've officially snapped out of it. Judging by the number of posts ITT, I hope we at least had some fun. Enjoy all that haterade, fellas. I know it tastes good, especially when you're feeling down, but it won't get you very far in life.

Successfully scratched the itch without even playing. Ahh, sweet freedom! Feliz Navidad y adios.
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Doctor
post Dec 15 2016, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Dec 15 2016, 07:35 PM) *
Misses the joke


QUOTE (halombobtk @ Dec 15 2016, 07:35 PM) *
Misses the joke..........


QUOTE (halombobtk @ Dec 15 2016, 07:35 PM) *
Misses the joke................................................................




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Hijack
post Dec 16 2016, 08:14 AM
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this thread is cancer
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Songa
post Dec 16 2016, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Xing-Yu Seong @ Dec 15 2016, 02:17 PM) *
From the gist of the general conversation, what I can gather is that a retro server constitutes:
Current graphics, but removal of any content, story post-2003. So, return to Mythic-only central hub, Pre-Quota Subpaths, etc.
Being a new server, everyone would start over, meaning Jadespear and Ironheart would need to be restored because Tangun, or even the old Tutorial with the questionnaire and Soothe, would be too new.

It would also mean that the Subpaths would have to be re-established per the Archons.
Yuri an Senshi would be Kings again, Nagnang would still possibly be an NPC kingdom, Pre-Blight Invasion? I can't remember that timeline for 4.0...
However, it is also mentioned that a Clean Slate isn't absolutely necessary, so basically going back to Mythic and maybe adding new tiers is a possibility.

It's confusing.



If this is true, KRU would never go for it. Why? Simple: it would destroy what they currently have. Right now they have a bunch of players who are more than happy to pay for a game running on rusty wheels, a broken engine, and no steering wheel. Making a new server that would reset the game could possibly bring in new and old players. But the biggest problem is that there would be no point in playing the old (current) server. Whatever people think that they've built would be pointless if you can start all over again. The two would cancel each other out.

QUOTE (halombobtk)
I guess you missed the part where I responded to every single statement he made, while he ignored half of mine and fixated on the trivial things he could rebut without having to agree with me on the more important parts. If you don't know why that's infuriating, you must also suck at debates.

@Doctor's signature - dude is not a doctor, nor does he get jokes. Misses the joke, then puts it in his signature. Yikes. Every person who has ever used autism as a way to slight someone online is the same.

@Everyone - thanks for reminding me that playing this game again would be a surefire way to surround myself with a bunch of degenerates. Probably not the best choice to make. I think I've officially snapped out of it. Judging by the number of posts ITT, I hope we at least had some fun. Enjoy all that haterade, fellas. I know it tastes good, especially when you're feeling down, but it won't get you very far in life.

Successfully scratched the itch without even playing. Ahh, sweet freedom! Feliz Navidad y adios.




Take it from someone who poured too much into the game and became very stressed and drained very quickly, take a step back. Take a breath. Look at what you have going on in your life and concentrate on that. This 2D [Content removed]hole of a game really isn't worth the trouble. You're so much better than this. You need to re-asses the efforts you're putting into something that will give you nothing in return. You may not want my words to sink in now, but hopefully they will in the future.

Instead of trying to scream at brick walls, if you really are passionate and care about your ideas, why are you bothering to tell us on these forums? Try going to the source. I'm serious. I just don't see the point of you screaming your head off to people when you don't seem to want their opinions. But that's what is frustrating about playing this game. You might think you have a good idea, it may even be a great one, but trying to tell others about it when they really don't care is a pointless task.
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Pebbles
post Dec 17 2016, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Songa @ Dec 16 2016, 01:52 PM) *
Instead of trying to scream at brick walls, if you really are passionate and care about your ideas, why are you bothering to tell us on these forums? Try going to the source. I'm serious. I just don't see the point of you screaming your head off to people when you don't seem to want their opinions. But that's what is frustrating about playing this game. You might think you have a good idea, it may even be a great one, but trying to tell others about it when they really don't care is a pointless task.



As much as I dislike the community, I've found that as long as you present enough evidence, people will listen. Blaming the community for being apathetic is a cop-out. If you're struggling to find others who share your viewpoint, it's more likely that either your idea sucks or you're not good at expressing it. It's ironic that you mention brick wall, when multiple people have explicitly told the OP why his idea is bad. OP has been extremely dismissive towards others and pretty much a rude [Content removed] every time someone disagreed with him.

This is the first time I've ever seen DarkMaverick, ShuZu and Conro all on the same side of an argument. It takes a special type of retardation to make that happen.
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Alston
post Dec 20 2016, 04:10 AM
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Holy hell, what did I miss?

Edit: Never-BLEEP-ing mind. Every one else got this handled.

halombobtk, You have no idea what "old" TK is. You also use the worst analogs for gauging demand. You don't listen to intelligent conversation whilst attempting to create echos of your own statements until they drown out dissent. Then you have the audacity to feign intelligence and superior knowledge to several people who have dedicated far more time than you have to this forum and this game.

I think every thing else has been said that needs to be said. I concur with the majority here. A "retro" or "vanilla" server (where you have no hotkeys, leveling to 99 took months, ginseng cave being mined to death, and mythic being a god damn cluster-BLEEP) will do more harm to Kru than good. This isn't just from a business standpoint, it's also from a psychological stand point. You cannot re-create the community that existed back in the day. Most of that player base has grown up, had families, found new obsessions and have had their tastes in vices shift. That's the thing about nostalgia. You can't have the "good ol' times."

At the end of the day, even if you could (somehow) manage to re-create pre-4.0 Nexus, it wouldn't be the same. Also, in this day and age, only a fraction of the original players would sample it and they wouldn't even stick around. This game has nearly no appeal to newer gamers either. It's outdated, uses mechanics that feel like bigger chores than MMO grinding, and there are plenty of free alternatives that provide a superior experience.

DarkMaverick hit you with some knowledge and you bobble-headed your way back into this argument with the same, tired tune. I'm changing the channel before I care enough to invest time into truly eviscerating your self-contained attempt at building an echo chamber here.


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Krmit
post Dec 30 2016, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE (Alston @ Dec 20 2016, 04:10 AM) *
Holy hell, what did I miss?

Edit: Never-BLEEP-ing mind. Every one else got this handled.

halombobtk, You have no idea what "old" TK is. You also use the worst analogs for gauging demand. You don't listen to intelligent conversation whilst attempting to create echos of your own statements until they drown out dissent. Then you have the audacity to feign intelligence and superior knowledge to several people who have dedicated far more time than you have to this forum and this game.

I think every thing else has been said that needs to be said. I concur with the majority here. A "retro" or "vanilla" server (where you have no hotkeys, leveling to 99 took months, ginseng cave being mined to death, and mythic being a god damn cluster-BLEEP) will do more harm to Kru than good. This isn't just from a business standpoint, it's also from a psychological stand point. You cannot re-create the community that existed back in the day. Most of that player base has grown up, had families, found new obsessions and have had their tastes in vices shift. That's the thing about nostalgia. You can't have the "good ol' times."

At the end of the day, even if you could (somehow) manage to re-create pre-4.0 Nexus, it wouldn't be the same. Also, in this day and age, only a fraction of the original players would sample it and they wouldn't even stick around. This game has nearly no appeal to newer gamers either. It's outdated, uses mechanics that feel like bigger chores than MMO grinding, and there are plenty of free alternatives that provide a superior experience.

DarkMaverick hit you with some knowledge and you bobble-headed your way back into this argument with the same, tired tune. I'm changing the channel before I care enough to invest time into truly eviscerating your self-contained attempt at building an echo chamber here.


Exactly, that noob doesn't know what it was to have to go farm squirrels for acorns just to go sell them 200 for like 1k coins (but you are one of 60 noobs fighting for the same farming spots). Mountain ginseng being farmed because 10 sold for 10k but you were one of 30 people running circles around the cave (oh then have your kill or drop stolen). Finding a group to go grind hamgyong grim ogres for months at a time because that was some of the best exp out there. You want to know beta/3.0 grinding lmao? Go get spark/singe and sit there and try to farm a cow in the kugnae farm or horse hut, only to run out of pipes or livers, have someone else steal your crappy few hundred exp, then have to go do it all over again.

You sir, have never had the luxury of spending a your life in pig 1/2 because every room of every cave was taken. People are very spoiled now with what they've got. Basic quest items now are plentiful but back then, even the most basic of quest items were tall order to acquire holy rings, tit gloves, Lucky silver coins, magic dusts, ST/Electra's/SS's ETC. Imagine getting these things for your quests when the entire population used these items as Best in slot at the time.

Nostalgia is one thing, thats why i still enjoy being a part of the game and hopping on here or there for the 10 bucks a month. But Nostalgia is where all that ends. I would love to see something like that on another server type thing as a fun "weekend" type of thing but its not something i particularly want to experience again from the start. The game mechanically is much different now than it was then.
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Hijack
post Dec 30 2016, 04:16 PM
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this thread is cancer
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Nacostradamuss
post Jan 2 2017, 02:09 PM
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I'm so glad we came together to put the slam on that stupid millenial


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Krmit
post Jan 3 2017, 02:41 PM
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LOL!!! /\ /\ /\
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