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> Jail system, What did Wony mean
Hijack
post Aug 15 2016, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 15 2016, 09:04 PM) *
The funny thing is the same diviner guide who threatened you is now the modern day Marama. Sarina lives.


Airess? Because she was the other one who harassed us in NagArmy
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Doctor
post Aug 16 2016, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 15 2016, 09:23 PM) *
Airess? Because she was the other one who harassed us in NagArmy

Nah, Iruma.


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Brant
post Aug 16 2016, 02:07 PM
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Careful, don't break the Iruma law.

http://boards.nexustk.com/Law/Alilolelotte01230199.html
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darkmaverick
post Aug 16 2016, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (SilentS @ Aug 15 2016, 07:31 PM) *
Just to clarify this, Pardon was never nerfed, nor changed in any way. It was just the god rules governing on how we can use the spell that was heavily laid against us.


You weren't even in the Chongun path when Pardon got nerfed. You were still an unpathed warrior.

I was still a Guide when the change happened. Gild was Elder.

( for history sake, this was the second time Chonguns had been nerfed -- originally Evaluate opponent also worked on players but after someone -- possibly Icy, I can't recall -- used it to reveal someone's stats over Sage it got nerfed. I remember the nerf happening with Pardon because it came sudden without any warning until we just noticed we couldn't pardon the serious offense anymore and Gild was in an uproar because we were the only path getting systematically nerfed).

I don't doubt that the Archons and Judges pressured Chonguns to not pardon certain people they wanted to ruin, but the spell originally could pardon every jail brand. We had no rules over its use, and we took payment in Trigram key sets. I used to do pardons at East gate Kugnea.

I remember that I had to update the Pardon post we'd make on the subpath board after the nerf happened. I was the one who changed the post originally written by Icy, since Icy had left the path by this point to become a Barbarian.

To your credit, I do recall the incident where they stole the idea for Royal Pardons, or at least hearing about it shortly after. But there would never have been a need for the proposal in the first place had the original version of the spell never been tampered with.


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Songa
post Aug 16 2016, 05:24 PM
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Honestly we can't really blame players for [Content removed]ing things up because ultimately the company allowed it to happen. People have complained about power being used incorrectly and barely anything is done about it. If the company (not just KRU because this happened with Nexon too) was so concerned then they would've stepped in. But it is obvious that is not the case as we're still talking about the same issues. Instead we defend these players and claim that they were justified without looking at the bigger picture. When you're too close to something, you become blinded by false loyalties. It's exactly why people say this game is unique; not because it has a great system but because no company in their right mind would give that much power to players. They're simply too biased. (And they obviously love to blame others when the fire gets hot because who knows who did what when they have anonymity.)
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Doctor
post Aug 16 2016, 06:49 PM
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Well yeah. KRU is primarily to blame for even allowing something as ridiculous as player's having account/character changing power over others. Still something to be said about those who systematically abused it though. We can blame them for being [Content removed] heads and still recognize the system is the true problem.


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darkmaverick
post Aug 16 2016, 10:02 PM
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I think the people who continue to pay KRU a monthly subscription fee despite knowing all of this stuff are part of the problem.

The system is corrupt and KRU does not address any of the complaints regarding it, nor make any real effort to address the gameplay problems. To keep paying them money anyway allows this behavior to continue.

Sadly, people are too afraid about losing their in-game achievements. They fear KRU will follow through with threats it places on subpaths and clans to to maintain active quotas, and do everything they can to try to prevent losing this crap instead of taking a united front.

I bet if half the playerbase suddenly canceled their subscriptions Wony would lose his [Content removed] and start making quick changes. But this will not occur because people are too addicted to this virtual life they've created for themselves in Nexus.

The playerbase should grow some balls. The Archons, Judges and probably the subpath Elders and Guides will never quit the game while the going is good for them, but if everyone else suddenly quit KRU as a commercial entity would be screwed. Everyone would get an email apology begging you to come back and practically any list of player demands would be implemented to avoid complete financial collapse.

I had some hope Wony might have been reasonable and willing to make real changes, but it's been four months and all they really have to show for it is


1. some new unbalanced items
2. a mini-map feature that nobody ever needed
3. an NPC who encourages the entire community to AFK camp in a single room to get free rare items.
4. a handful of botters got banned
5. people donated millions of gold coins to get a legend mark that refers to characters as 'NPCs'.
6. Show damage numbers was finally switched on.
7. Minor client tweaks like displaying necklaces or not.


Wony isn't going to address anything important like removing the justice system or addressing the boring gameplay of pre-99. He's not going to address that 99+ mage gameplay is boring, or the power imbalances between warriors and rogues. He's not going to make the game free to play.

He's not going to tackle any of the issues that players have been asking for over a decade. He instead will keep making token efforts while looking to squeeze money out of the addicted playerbase using the item shop.

He's welcome to prove me wrong, but I don't think he will. If the game is around this time next year and the status quo remains just as it always has, you'll know for sure that I'm right.


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Doctor
post Aug 16 2016, 10:12 PM
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If there was any indication that a mass unsubscribe would be able to immediately fix problems people would do it. But there isn't, and it won't.

Plus it's $10 a month, it's an afterthought for most people.


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darkmaverick
post Aug 16 2016, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 16 2016, 10:12 PM) *
If there was any indication that a mass unsubscribe would be able to immediately fix problems people would do it. But there isn't, and it won't.


Wony did a bunch of big speeches and community engagement four months ago designed to convince people to re-subscribe. It didn't work phenomenally well, but it did get about 50-60 people to come back by my estimate. That in addition to whatever cash shop stuff they bought might have made some difference. There would at least be a positive curve in revenue.

If I had to guess the only reason Wony made that appearance after being utterly silent for years is because he wanted to boost revenue temporarily, possibly in effort to get a line of credit from private investors or maybe even Nexon, by showing he could get subscription numbers up. If this occurred then he got a temporary lifeline but it would be just that -- temporary.

A sudden and significant drop in subscribers would make any business owner lose their mind and do virtually anything to get the customers back.

I still believe Wony's goal with getting a resurgence of subscribers is to get numbers up to help him sell the company to someone else (it would be the only logical reason he is making token efforts instead of the substantial changes to the game players have asked for -- the token efforts help convince players the devs are working on big things while the company actually keep costs down which is necessary if you want to claim the game is profitable). Losing even 30% of the current population would utterly sabotage that plan.

I personally believe he didn't hire any "veteran" coders from Korea and the entire story was made up, similar to how Yin was invented to achieve a similar goal years ago. For all we know the Wony everyone has been interacting with is just some part time hire "game manager" fresh out of college who is sitting in a small office following Scott Lee's instructions while he's actually off in the Bahamas or something. With all the shady crap KRU has pulled over the years I would not be surprised.


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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Doctor
post Aug 17 2016, 01:26 AM
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Maybe that's true or maybe it's the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist. Either way I don't see an unsubscribing doing anything predictable. He could see it as a need to release content (maybe too early), or he could say [Content removed] it and give up and let it continue to self-sustain.


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darkmaverick
post Aug 17 2016, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 17 2016, 01:26 AM) *
Maybe that's true or maybe it's the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist. Either way I don't see an unsubscribing doing anything predictable. He could see it as a need to release content (maybe too early), or he could say [Content removed] it and give up and let it continue to self-sustain.




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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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Doctor
post Aug 17 2016, 04:22 PM
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That'd be a really cool and poignant quote to use if anyone was expecting different results.


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Brant
post Aug 17 2016, 05:55 PM
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SilentS
post Aug 17 2016, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 16 2016, 02:00 PM) *
You weren't even in the Chongun path when Pardon got nerfed. You were still an unpathed warrior.

I was still a Guide when the change happened. Gild was Elder.

( for history sake, this was the second time Chonguns had been nerfed -- originally Evaluate opponent also worked on players but after someone -- possibly Icy, I can't recall -- used it to reveal someone's stats over Sage it got nerfed. I remember the nerf happening with Pardon because it came sudden without any warning until we just noticed we couldn't pardon the serious offense anymore and Gild was in an uproar because we were the only path getting systematically nerfed).

I don't doubt that the Archons and Judges pressured Chonguns to not pardon certain people they wanted to ruin, but the spell originally could pardon every jail brand. We had no rules over its use, and we took payment in Trigram key sets. I used to do pardons at East gate Kugnea.

I remember that I had to update the Pardon post we'd make on the subpath board after the nerf happened. I was the one who changed the post originally written by Icy, since Icy had left the path by this point to become a Barbarian.

To your credit, I do recall the incident where they stole the idea for Royal Pardons, or at least hearing about it shortly after. But there would never have been a need for the proposal in the first place had the original version of the spell never been tampered with.

*Sighs* Why do I bother.... Granted I do not know what was done before I joined the path, or even before I got guide, but I can tell you right now that what you are saying was never the case from the time I first became a guide to now. The ~ONLY~ jailing marks we cannot physically remove are Bug Abuse and Sexual Harassment (the ones before Serious Others became the standard for all marks). Every other jailing can be removed by the pardon spell, including the SO mark. That is the same spell that the Archons use when they do the Royal Pardons. I had to explain it to multiple archons, including Marama (twice) on how the spell was to be used and what was required. As for the other nerf, that was never in effect either during my entire time, but that was most likely because when it got moved to being a walker spell instead of a guide only, it got reset to the original settings.


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darkmaverick
post Aug 17 2016, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (SilentS @ Aug 17 2016, 05:59 PM) *
Every other jailing can be removed by the pardon spell, including the SO mark. That is the same spell that the Archons use when they do the Royal Pardons. I had to explain it to multiple archons, including Marama (twice) on how the spell was to be used and what was required.


I have a distinct memory of it being removed as an option to pardon. Maybe they brought it back, I don't know. I know it was removed during my time as Guide because it was a pretty big deal. I remember having to refund someone because I couldn't remove his mark.

QUOTE
As for the other nerf, that was never in effect either during my entire time, but that was most likely because when it got moved to being a walker spell instead of a guide only, it got reset to the original settings.


Actually, my memory is fuzzy on if Evaluate opponent was Guide only or always a Walker spell. Are you possibly confusing it with Invincibility, which I know for sure was Guide exclusive until it got moved down to a Walker spell?

I think EO was always Walker. Otherwise the original spell list for Chongun Walkers would have just been Art of War. I think originally every subpath had two Walker spells and three Guide spells. Chongun was Evaluate Opponent, Art of War for Walkers and Invincibility, Bestow Title and Pardon for Guides.

Anyway I remember how the spell originally worked because it was something we used to lecture people about.


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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BeffyCabeza
post Aug 18 2016, 10:03 PM
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DM, can we get back on focus to the jail system and justice in Nexus, and not another 4 page debate about Chongun. All of us on NF, probably know more about Chongun history then we ever wanted to know.

I personally think a profanity filter, would do amazing things. And there are judges, past and present, who I cannot even imagine why Teragg or any other head judge, would give them the time of day.

And yes, was a judge, didn't like jailing people, and also, didn't like getting yelled at constantly for not jailing someone by the plaintiff. I wanted to tell quite a few, to take their petty squabbles elsewhere, and to quit using a system that is easily abused to ruin characters.

I've used justice 3 times in 13 years. I tried F9, I avoided them, etc, and they just didn't get the hint to leave me the hell alone. tongue.gif
[I really did try to get the person to leave me alone, but I couldn't even play the game without them following me around harassing everyone around me.]


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darkmaverick
post Aug 19 2016, 12:13 AM
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I may have gotten a little side-tracked responding to SilentS but I'm pretty sure I'm still on the subject. Archons and Chonguns have historically been at odds because Chongun Guides can remove the brands the Archons and Judges place on other players, which checks their authority. The system was designed this way on purpose by Orb but that check on power has been chipped away at over the years. That was the point of bringing the subject up.

QUOTE (BeffyCabeza @ Aug 18 2016, 10:03 PM) *
I personally think a profanity filter, would do amazing things.


The game has a profanity filter. Sure, it's not the greatest profanity filter but when the Judges jail people for using the filtered words anyway that demonstrates the player ran Judge system is a problem that can only be fixed by its removal.

Can you name any other MMORPG in the world where a player would be penalized for saying the word 'Toe'? I don't know of one, and I'm pretty damn sure there isn't another. It's only NexusTK and it's solely because of its wholly unique and utterly idiotic player-ran system of punishment.

QUOTE
And yes, was a judge, didn't like jailing people, and also, didn't like getting yelled at constantly for not jailing someone by the plaintiff. I wanted to tell quite a few, to take their petty squabbles elsewhere, and to quit using a system that is easily abused to ruin characters.

I've used justice 3 times in 13 years. I tried F9, I avoided them, etc, and they just didn't get the hint to leave me the hell alone. tongue.gif
[I really did try to get the person to leave me alone, but I couldn't even play the game without them following me around harassing everyone around me.]


It's good that you at least acknowledge people use the system to harass others but at the end it sounds like you're arguing the Justice system is still necessary for 'harassment'.

You know, I've experienced all kinds of harassment in various games, including NexusTK. Due to its small community the events in NexusTK stand out though.

From pretty much the moment I got into it with a certain Elder, I had people following me around trying to find things to get me into trouble about. I had people befriend me with the sole intention of trying to steer me into some kind of scandal and trip me up. I had my share of people who repeatedly made peasants to get around the ignore list to try to continue an unwanted conversation in hopes of upsetting me enough to say something foolish.

Pretty much my entire play experience in NexusTK was filled with these kinds of interactions. Not on a daily basis, but at least a few times a week.

The most memorable occasion is when half the Warrior population sent me nasty whispers and nmails for a week after Eldridge implemented the Whirlwind change in such a way that people thought I convinced Eldridge to create that ridiculous Tiger Palace un-alignment quest -- the vast majority of Warriors had chosen Kwi-Sin graphics because they look cooler than Ohaeng and Mingken, and I was one of the few who was Mingken. Because of the way Eldridge had worded the announcement it sounded like it was my idea for every WW but Kwi-Sin to change to 10% consumption.

All of the letters basically said, "Hey I trusted you but it seems you just screwed us so you could have a better spell than everyone else". In so many words I heard this from both total strangers and people I considered good friends.

So, if you've never had about 100 people royally pissed off at you and not concerned about whether they will get jailed because they know you don't support the justice system, you really can't say that as a Judge you have any idea of what actual harassment in NexusTK is like.

I got pretty depressed when the entire community turned on me but I got through it without needing to turn to the justice system to get everyone punished. I ignored people, I learned to play while disabling whispers and got used to the fact 30 or so people would bombard me with angry nmails and respond to them on my own time. And I got used to people spreading fake rumors about me, and both well and malicious minded people occasionally confronting me about it.

But I learned that outside of chat and PVP arenas there really isn't a lot that people can do to harass you. There are couple things they do to annoy you like constant emotes, but turning off sounds mitigates that greatly.

The Justice system in NexusTK just doesn't need to exist. People just need to grow up and learn how to ignore others. Just because they are on your screen doesn't mean you need to give them attention.


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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YoKaZe
post Aug 19 2016, 03:20 AM
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Holy moly I come back here after like 10-13 years and I still see a player-run justice system lmao.


Don't get me wrong, the games I've played without a player-ran justice system are so much better than .. wait nexus is the only one.



The question is why is there a justice system for a game that's already dying and not to mention, less than 300 players on average (which is REALLY really really really low).

Most players that are online are usually afk at this time anyways (4:00 am, i mean 200 players actively playing, that's a lie)
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Ralphey
post Aug 19 2016, 06:07 AM
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If TK really wants to catch up to modern MMO giants these days, where is the toggleable curse filter? That way you can do away with the profanity law, and all the unnecessary woe that comes with it. You can't justify it with the argument "KIDS PLAY THIS GAME TOO :{{{{" when they, for example, easily could've just linked the filter to the age of the account's owner.

I mean, that's entirely possible, right?


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darkmaverick
post Aug 19 2016, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE (Ralphey @ Aug 19 2016, 06:07 AM) *
You can't justify it with the argument "KIDS PLAY THIS GAME TOO :{{{{" when they, for example, easily could've just linked the filter to the age of the account's owner.

I mean, that's entirely possible, right?


Technically speaking, kids playing the game is a violation of the Terms of Service which should rationally eliminate any argument the Justice system profanity laws are designed to protect children. Officially they aren't supposed to be playing the game to begin with.

QUOTE
http://www.nexustk.com/agreement.htm

You represent that you are at least 18 years old, that you are legally able to enter into this Agreement and that you are the authorized user of the credit card or other method of payment provided to Kru Interactive to register you to play within Kru Interactive Games.




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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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