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> Other Nexus Games Or Private Servers, Wondering
darkmaverick
post Nov 27 2014, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Nagnag @ Nov 18 2014, 08:20 AM) *
The problem is in the licensing. KRU licenses from Nexon Korea, so I'm unsure if KRU has any legal right to request that a 2.5D game be made, but Nexon does. The very idea of Nexus, the concepts, the storyline, the characters, similar graphics (even if 3D-ified) would all be copyright infringement. Now, granted, private game servers are against the Terms and Conditions - yes. But they're not stealing intellectual property for their own benefit & profit.


I disagree this is an issue.

There are several aspects to the NexusTK IP.

Sound, music and Graphical assets in the NexusTK game client: Owned by NEXON who has licensed it to KRU Interactive. But this is only the specific audio and image creations used in the client. No one owns the idea of a flaming sword, a dragon, a monkey, ancient Korea style villages, etc You can make your own graphics and music that is similar and because it is original work, it cannot be considered copyright infringement.

Copyright protects the specific details of a drawing, not the idea expressed in the drawing.

The characters in the NexusTK universe: There are the official characters, and then there are the player-created character. The PCs are owned by the players; the official characters (Royals, event characters, etc) are owned by KRU Interactive. HOWEVER the majority of these characters are based on the characters from the original manga work by Kimjin. The manga story is based on historical figures, so what he actually owns is the specific story he wrote, not the characters themselves. The characters based on historical figures are in the public domain.

You may be aware there are hundreds of unique interpretations of the Three Kingdoms period in Chinese history, almost all of whom share common elements because they are based on history and myth. This would be an identical situation; no one owns a historical or ancient legend. These ideas are in the public domain.

Basically, there is nothing stopping you from making another game with a story centered around Goguryeo's second emperor and using the character of Mhul and the leaders of the nations surrounding his kingdom.

You can even still use the Totem guardians, as they are based on characters in Asian mythology. They have appeared in dozens of other fictional works already.

What you can't use, is wholly original characters like ChiZao and whatnot. But you could always create different characters that fulfill the same roles.

Again, copyright only protects the particular expression of an idea, not the idea itself.

The code used in the client / server: Again, this would be wholly original so there could be no copyright violation.

Game rules: Game rules are not copyrightable. They are patentable but no one is going to issue a patent for the gameplay of NexusTK, which is based on prior art. Every game publisher in the world will oppose the patent filing.

You do not need to license anything from KRU or Nexon to make your own game similar to NexusTK based in ancient Korea. All you need to do is make your own game assets and write your own interpretation of the historical period.

QUOTE (JaydePhoenix @ Nov 26 2014, 12:24 PM) *
I would imagine devs eventually losing interest, and any kind of dynamic content coming out at a steady pace (or at all) would be the primary things that kill things like ETK eventually.. Is that actually how it usually goes, or does something else usually kill them off? The few similar things I've worked on myself, I wasn't actively involved with when they began to decline, so I'm kind of curious as to what kills them. (I usually end up leaving projects when work burns away my free time, and I've none left for the game in question)


This is exactly why game development should be done in a professional manner, not with a pirated game client using unlicensed game assets. If the game was wholly original they could freely generate revenue and raise investment capital, and everyone could work on the game as their job and not as a hobby which will always take less precedence in their life.


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Loxie
post Nov 27 2014, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 27 2014, 12:45 PM) *
I disagree this is an issue.

There are several aspects to the NexusTK IP.

Sound, music and Graphical assets in the NexusTK game client: Owned by NEXON who has licensed it to KRU Interactive. But this is only the specific audio and image creations used in the client. No one owns the idea of a flaming sword, a dragon, a monkey, ancient Korea style villages, etc You can make your own graphics and music that is similar and because it is original work, it cannot be considered copyright infringement.

Copyright protects the specific details of a drawing, not the idea expressed in the drawing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_similarity
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darkmaverick
post Nov 27 2014, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (Loxie @ Nov 27 2014, 04:36 PM) *


No.

Let me show you an actual examples in gaming so you have a better understanding of how this works when you have two works based on public domain content.

Mindflayers were created by Gary Gygax for Dungeons and Dragons back in the 70s. The IP related to them -- known as illithid -- is trademarked by Wizards of the Coast, owned by Hasbro.

This is the original mind flayer illustration used in the First Edition Monster Manual.



This is the version of the mind flayer in Final Fantasy 1 (1987).



And a more recent depiction,



As anyone can see, the details in the images are nearly identical. So how then has Square been able to avoid a lawsuit from Hasbro?

The concept of an octopus-faced mind eater was originally created by H.P. Lovecraft. Gygax was simply inspired by the description from Lovecrafts books, and the artwork in the Monster Manual reflected that description.

Similarly, NexusTK is based on history and legends, which as I mentioned previously are in the public domain.

This is the main reason why most enemies in RPG videogames can be based on the D&D Monster manual, in many cases being near identical copies of the description, and yet Hasbro cannot do anything about it.

The D&D Monster Manual entries are almost entirely based on the description of creatures from public domain works, whether they be historical accounts, legends and myths, fairy tales, or old pulp novels whose copyrights have long expired.

tl:dr NexusTK is a derivative work (Kingdom of the Winds manga), based on a derivative work (legends and myths in the public domain). As long as you base your own game on the legends and myths, not the manga or NexusTK, you are fine.

This can even apply to quests. I own several books of Korean and Chinese folk-tales, and a lot of the quests in game are based on these stories.


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Songa
post Nov 28 2014, 03:36 PM
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I personally never thought that the storyline of NexusTK was anything all that desirable. Sure it is interesting but it was never that big of a draw that kept me playing the game. I don't know about others but the experiences of the game itself, mostly how small and tight knit the community is, is what caused me to want to play. And that idea is surely not anything that can be copyrighted. We hear it time and time again, the community is what lures people in as well as pushes them out. It has its flaws but ultimately you cannot find a game with a community like NexusTK all too often. That is the draw of the game, that is what keeps people spending money to play; not the graphics, the spells, the story, the characters, the anything else. It's the fact that you can feel like you have an impact on the game and the people in it. (Whether good or bad)

The problem with private servers, especially for this game in particular, is that people tend to forget that even though NexusTK has about a thousand things that can be fixed, it is ultimately the community that is the best part of the game. If you take that aspect away, you lose the charm of the game. I'd rather have someone work towards making their own original game idea, keeping the NexusTK community in the back of their mind, then bothering with private servers. Eventually life happens and the servers go down, leaving us with the idea of knowing how great NexusTK truly could be in terms of the spells, the story, the maps, etc, but ultimately knowing how it will most likely never be fixed.
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Doctor
post Nov 28 2014, 09:56 PM
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"Why don't you just make your own game with your own graphics and own client?"

What DarkMaverick is of course not realizing is that these people making private servers don't have the money to pay someone to make fully unique graphics, or the money & time to create a unique and original client. If these people could do that, or wanted to do that, or had the ability or funds to do that, they would have done that. But they don't, so they make fun little projects that they can practice getting better at coding in a familiar setting with and hope people enjoy it.



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darkmaverick
post Nov 30 2014, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Nov 28 2014, 10:56 PM) *
"Why don't you just make your own game with your own graphics and own client?"

What DarkMaverick is of course not realizing is that these people making private servers don't have the money to pay someone to make fully unique graphics, or the money & time to create a unique and original client. If these people could do that, or wanted to do that, or had the ability or funds to do that, they would have done that. But they don't, so they make fun little projects that they can practice getting better at coding in a familiar setting with and hope people enjoy it.


Sounds like a poor excuse, especially in the current market where you can simply license a MMORPG server and client package from HeroEngine or BigWorld; both of whom have indie licenses that cost only hundreds of dollars.

Besides, if they can find folks to script for free, they can find folks who will do graphics for free. It's actually easier if you are offering shares in a startup.

There is also crowd-funding. I've seen people raise tens of thousands of dollars to get original graphics and music for RPG Maker games released to Steam. I can't imagine it'd be tough to sell Nexus players on a better version of the game, raise the money to pay the small team a salary, use an off-the-shelf engine and then build the game in 6-8 months.


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linuxkiddy
post Dec 1 2014, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 30 2014, 12:09 PM) *
Sounds like a poor excuse, especially in the current market where you can simply license a MMORPG server and client package from HeroEngine or BigWorld; both of whom have indie licenses that cost only hundreds of dollars.

Besides, if they can find folks to script for free, they can find folks who will do graphics for free. It's actually easier if you are offering shares in a startup.

There is also crowd-funding. I've seen people raise tens of thousands of dollars to get original graphics and music for RPG Maker games released to Steam. I can't imagine it'd be tough to sell Nexus players on a better version of the game, raise the money to pay the small team a salary, use an off-the-shelf engine and then build the game in 6-8 months.


Yes you can say go start your own game with the same basics like ntk but it might be a total failure. Private servers are made for almost any game because the community either dosnt like the direction the games going, they dont want to pay 10$ a month on such an old game and people enjoy custom content an fun rate 200x+ normal exp rates or pure pvp servers. I don't see a problem with what etk is doing but they really need a better staff an let others help to pitch in to add more content an make it more fun
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Doctor
post Dec 1 2014, 07:16 PM
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People don't want to do that DM. You're not understanding why they're doing this. They're not looking to become game developers, they're looking to make a private server of nexustk, and that's it.


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darkmaverick
post Dec 1 2014, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (linuxkiddy @ Dec 1 2014, 08:08 AM) *
Yes you can say go start your own game with the same basics like ntk but it might be a total failure. Private servers are made for almost any game because the community either dosnt like the direction the games going, they dont want to pay 10$ a month on such an old game and people enjoy custom content an fun rate 200x+ normal exp rates or pure pvp servers.

I don't see a problem with what etk is doing but they really need a better staff an let others help to pitch in to add more content an make it more fun


All things that making your own game so you can charge money -- even if it's just a freemium model -- would address.

There are no long-term solutions to these issues without money. Again, hobbyists will always lose interest as running the game takes less priority in their life than their jobs. That is why MMO development is a career. And when people are working for free, the quality tends to be dubious. You might have some rockstar folks get involved initially, but they will be replaced by folks who are not so good.

NexusTK is a perfect example. The game's initial success was built in the high quality efforts put in by volunteers (Angels, Archons, Clan and subpath leaders). Now a few years down the road all those folks have moved on, and been replaced by those who are still willing to work for free and aren't exactly the brightest apples in the basket.


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Interstate
post Dec 8 2014, 03:47 PM
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What if you made a game where people could upload their own tiles and sprites and players just happened to upload nexus like graphics? Would that be like pirate bay? lol


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Loxie
post Dec 9 2014, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 30 2014, 09:09 AM) *
Besides, if they can find folks to script for free, they can find folks who will do graphics for free. It's actually easier if you are offering shares in a startup.


My hang up is programmers. I can't imagine finding anyone willing or capable to build an entire client for free. I imagine most people looking to fund games at least want a preview of the game.
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darkmaverick
post Dec 30 2014, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Loxie @ Dec 9 2014, 05:23 AM) *
My hang up is programmers. I can't imagine finding anyone willing or capable to build an entire client for free. I imagine most people looking to fund games at least want a preview of the game.


You don't have to build your own client. You can license the server and client from HeroEngine for $100.

http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/licensing-options/

If you absolutely want to emulate Nexus as close as possible, just fix the game camera to a top-down perspective so it looks 2D, and use 3D models that look like 2D sprites (cell-shaded).


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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Musoyan
post Jan 2 2015, 10:18 PM
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not enough interest in ntk private servers for them to become anything substantial
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SuNKaRA
post Jan 3 2015, 03:31 AM
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seriously. happy new year.
Reason for edit: Quoted message was deleted for being against NF rules.


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QUOTE (Musoyan @ Aug 1 2010, 01:57 PM) *
I WAS warned during Santa Mhul when trying to sell le chip scalps for a really high price. I told the archon to [Content removed] off though.

like a BOSS.
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Interstate
post Jan 3 2015, 01:53 PM
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I actually kind of like the heroengine linke.

YouTube company, meh, might as well do something.

DM, you do tend to come off as a pompus ass and undeservingly condesending--especially since you completely lack certain skill sets. The know it all attitude is rather annoying and that is saying a lot coming from me ;P From what I can tell it is what holds you back the most.

ShuZu youz just a troll lol


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Adam
post Jan 4 2015, 02:23 AM
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Rise above the hate, kids.


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solman
post Jan 5 2015, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jan 4 2015, 01:23 AM) *
Rise above the hate, kids.



I have no worries. Sitting very high on my pile of gold. Hate cant reach me from up here!


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SuNKaRA
post Jan 15 2015, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (mlswm @ Jan 11 2015, 11:43 PM) *
dm is prolly the most autistic dude i've ever encountered
pretty impressive

for everyone who needs a reminder,
this is the guy ya'll are arguing with.

http://youtu.be/VXrVRWt8f0w


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QUOTE (Musoyan @ Aug 1 2010, 01:57 PM) *
I WAS warned during Santa Mhul when trying to sell le chip scalps for a really high price. I told the archon to [Content removed] off though.

like a BOSS.
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Conro
post Jan 15 2015, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (SuNKaRA @ Jan 15 2015, 04:04 PM) *
for everyone who needs a reminder,
this is the guy ya'll are arguing with.

http://youtu.be/VXrVRWt8f0w



I [Content removed]ING CAN'T HANDLE THIS LOLOL


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Interstate
post Jan 16 2015, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (SuNKaRA @ Jan 15 2015, 03:04 PM) *
for everyone who needs a reminder,
this is the guy ya'll are arguing with.

http://youtu.be/VXrVRWt8f0w


Link result ::


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