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Nexus Forums _ Community Board _ What is this?

Posted by: Hijack Jul 30 2016, 04:46 PM

QUOTE
- EE culture crafting mastery upgrade coupon for 'experts' available, for Il San only, for limited time, perhaps until next patch. (Just bring what you need to manufacture, and consider the location)

Posted by: darkmaverick Jul 30 2016, 07:43 PM

That sentence is practically gibberish, but it sounds like they've implemented a Kruna shop item to obtain master level in a craft so that Ee san culture can be obtained.

The sentence seems to imply you need to already be expert level, but given the sentence is written in a nonsensical way, who knows.

Though, I do believe I did write a post a few weeks ago suggesting something like this.

Posted by: Cuchulain Jul 30 2016, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jul 30 2016, 08:43 PM) *
That sentence is practically gibberish, but it sounds like they've implemented a Kruna shop item to obtain master level in a craft so that Ee san culture can be obtained.

The sentence seems to imply you need to already be expert level, but given the sentence is written in a nonsensical way, who knows.


Checked the kruna shop, no new item in there related to crafting. That was my first guess when I saw it too. Asking some friends that still play for info.

Edit: Looking at the community board, people have not figured out what items are required just yet.

Posted by: Hijack Jul 30 2016, 09:00 PM

I mean if they made Ee culture easier to get, then bravo.

I don't know how many times I have posted here that ee culture and sam wisdom need to be reduced. Glad they finally listened for wisdom, now culture. Hopefully.

Posted by: Qwertyer Jul 30 2016, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jul 30 2016, 05:43 PM) *
Though, I do believe I did write a post a few weeks ago suggesting something like this.


Wouldn't want to leave out any opportunity to give yourself credit for the 'development' of nexustk, thanks for sharing!

Posted by: BeffyCabeza Jul 31 2016, 06:09 AM

QUOTE
I am an Il san chongun, Master Miner, Grand Master Smelter, Master Smith.


What I used:

20 Crafted Amber
20 ginko wood
20 Fine cloth
15 Fine Metal
50 Malgal Insignia

Provides you with Ee Crafting Master coupon.

You then take it to Bon-Hwa, with having Expert crafting. It will then give you the completion of Ee Culture

~Celandrius~


Happened to see this on the Comm board earlier. You still have to have Expert apparently.

Posted by: Hijack Jul 31 2016, 08:40 AM

These are the types of changes needed

Double exp for 1-99 and make it soloable
Ee and Sam marks easier to get
Make Sa easier to get when Oh comes out
I would even add a exp boost under Sa stats at this point too

Posted by: SungKen Jul 31 2016, 04:20 PM

I like how they are doing this and they are saying it is temporary. They are doing it for people like me I guess that have never gotten past il-san because I patently refused to do that EE san trial. I really do appreciate this effort by Wony and/or Kru. Its noted in my heart.

Also along the lines of taking credit, I would like to point out that the day before they instuted the new arena I made a post on comm board saying we needed something like that. So I would like ALL (not a piece or part of) the credit for this new arena. Thank you all.

Posted by: Hijack Jul 31 2016, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (SungKen @ Jul 31 2016, 04:20 PM) *
Also along the lines of taking credit, I would like to point out that the day before they instuted the new arena I made a post on comm board saying we needed something like that. So I would like ALL (not a piece or part of) the credit for this new arena. Thank you all.


make sure you put it on your resume

Posted by: oogabooga Jul 31 2016, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (SungKen @ Jul 31 2016, 04:20 PM) *
I like how they are doing this and they are saying it is temporary. They are doing it for people like me I guess that have never gotten past il-san because I patently refused to do that EE san trial. I really do appreciate this effort by Wony and/or Kru. Its noted in my heart.

Also along the lines of taking credit, I would like to point out that the day before they instuted the new arena I made a post on comm board saying we needed something like that. So I would like ALL (not a piece or part of) the credit for this new arena. Thank you all.



If only you put forth all that effort during your 15 years of playing into making a decent poem or story instead of waiting for things to be handed to you.

Posted by: Hijack Jul 31 2016, 06:07 PM

Just wait until they sell them for kruna. That's probably why this will only last to next patch.

Posted by: Doctor Jul 31 2016, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Hijack @ Jul 31 2016, 06:40 AM) *
These are the types of changes needed

Double exp for 1-99 and make it soloable
Ee and Sam marks easier to get
Make Sa easier to get when Oh comes out
I would even add a exp boost under Sa stats at this point too

I thought up until oh san we should be:

1-99 soloable through hunting and quests, lots of exploration quests, lots of reading up on history to get people hooked into that side of the game, soloing bosses/caves. Takes maybe 3-5 days.

99-Il stat - 8x exp.
Il stat-Ee sat - 6x exp.
Ee stat-sam stat - 5x exp.
Sam stat-sa stat - 4x exp.
Sa stat-oh stat - 3x exp.

Also take sc out of PvE so soloing is more of a possibility.

Posted by: SungKen Jul 31 2016, 09:00 PM

QUOTE (oogabooga @ Jul 31 2016, 06:04 PM) *
If only you put forth all that effort during your 15 years of playing into making a decent poem or story instead of waiting for things to be handed to you.


Yeah I should have written more poems... I probably only tried like 20 times over the years (which is like nothing compared to the hundreds of chances I would have had) but to do that I would have had to kept paying 10 dollars a month, so that I could once a week write a horrible story and poem and pray to god that I would win so I could go back to actually playing the game. Or my other option was to play another character of a path I didnt enjoy as much just to eventually run into the same brick wall.

Posted by: Qwertyer Aug 2 2016, 03:05 AM

One month equated to 4 chances to win, each week 2 people won with 4 HMs. Some weeks only 6 people enter. If you go a month and dont even get an HM you, well, kinda suck.

Posted by: Brant Aug 2 2016, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Qwertyer @ Aug 2 2016, 03:05 AM) *
One month equated to 4 chances to win, each week 2 people won with 4 HMs. Some weeks only 6 people enter. If you go a month and dont even get an HM you, well, kinda suck.


It's only 1st, 2nd, and 2 HMs now.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 2 2016, 08:58 AM

I dont agree with getting every single person in the game up to Sa San Stats so easily (IE Doctor's suggestion) This is a game dont forget, many people play games for different reasons. The people who want to get to Sa san stats so quickly through increased EXP just want all of their characters to be top characters.

You should still have to put in work if you want your characters to be the best in the game.

I for one am not a big hunter, and dont care much about it, i pass time in other ways on the game. Massive stats are not my motivator.

I do think that being able to attain the marks easier is a great thing though.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 2 2016, 12:31 PM

Sa san doesn't make you a top character. It puts you in the top 1500~ players assuming all people all registered, it puts you in the top 500 if nobody else registered except for who was around today. Oh San puts you in the top 170 today. Now, hunt another 1.28million mana after you reach oh san. That puts you in the top 50 players right now.

Really think it's unreasonable to bring everyone up to sa san/oh san and then let the exp be normalized after that?

Posted by: Brant Aug 2 2016, 01:12 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 2 2016, 12:31 PM) *
Sa san doesn't make you a top character. It puts you in the top 1500~ players assuming all people all registered, it puts you in the top 500 if nobody else registered except for who was around today. Oh San puts you in the top 170 today. Now, hunt another 1.28million mana after you reach oh san. That puts you in the top 50 players right now.

Really think it's unreasonable to bring everyone up to sa san/oh san and then let the exp be normalized after that?


Would be great if this could be shown on a graph.

I don't think people understand how strong the Top 50 are, and what their total EXP is.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 2 2016, 07:25 PM



99-Oh san stat amounts were calculated by assuming a 1:1 ratio, so at Ee you're 160/160, Oh san 1.28/1.28, etc.

Full list of values: 20000, 240000, 480000, 960000, 1920000, 3840000, 4750000, 5670000, 6540000, 7800000, 9450000, 10500000, 15000000.

If you want to put this into even greater terms:



These are the numbers and the amount of experience (turn those k's into t's... that stands for TRILLION) that is needed to generate said stats: 4.29, 50.4, 124.8, 369.6, 1243.2, 4526.4, 6752, 9543.684, 11830.188, 16575.408, 32958, 45508, 58160.136.

To put that in even greater words, assuming you're getting maxes every 30 minutes no more no less, from sam san to sa san it will take you 436.8 hours. From sa san to oh san it will take you 1641.6 hours. If you wanted to catch up to Egg's stats, you would need to spend 6778 hours or 284 full days of your life hunting.

Are we starting to get a clearer picture of the problem here? There NEEDS to be a way to get people on the lower end of the spectrum to generate experience faster.

EDIT: Sry for stretchin da page.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 2 2016, 09:01 PM



Here's another graph for you. Here's all the rogues above il san stat (1465 rogues total) in the game as captured by StatAddict. Dreezy is marked here, he's the #210 rogue, he's at a 2.15m power level, or 168 total hours played solely hunting assuming 30 minutes per max.

To get to Oh San stats by hunting nothing but vita (leaving him at a horrible stat ratio of 2.56m/415k) he will need to hunt an additional 298.5 hours. To break into the top #100 he will have to hunt an additional 1500 hours.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 2 2016, 09:43 PM

people act like we want new players to be top 100 within a month of joining lmao

Posted by: SungKen Aug 2 2016, 10:15 PM

The only flaw I see in your theory Doc is your not accounting for from what I see the average experience everyone above you gets per day. Because you have to remember they are pulling away from you while your trying to catch up.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 2 2016, 11:06 PM

QUOTE (SungKen @ Aug 2 2016, 08:15 PM) *
The only flaw I see in your theory Doc is your not accounting for from what I see the average experience everyone above you gets per day. Because you have to remember they are pulling away from you while your trying to catch up.

Everyone between sa san and mega stats (top 5 of your path) is getting the same amount of experience, for the most part, which is around 24-30 minutes a max.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 3 2016, 11:58 AM

Also to put this in some other context, just 'cause I think it's funny: John Stockton played 19 years in the NBA, he played over 1500 games of basketball in his career. In total he only played 100 more hours of basketball than Egg spent hunting on NexusTK.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 3 2016, 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 11:58 AM) *
Also to put this in some other context, just 'cause I think it's funny: John Stockton played 19 years in the NBA, he played over 1500 games of basketball in his career. In total he only played 100 more hours of basketball than Egg spent hunting on NexusTK.


Is that counting injuries and time on bench?

Posted by: Micoris Aug 3 2016, 01:32 PM

QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 2 2016, 09:43 PM) *
people act like we want new players to be top 100 within a month of joining lmao


Top 100? No. Able to play with what little player base exists? Yes.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 3 2016, 01:46 PM

QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 3 2016, 10:11 AM) *
Is that counting injuries and time on bench?

My mistake. Stockton played 47764 minutes of basketball in 19 years, or 33 days. Eggio has hunted for 406680 minutes, or 284 days.

Ahaha...

Posted by: Krmit Aug 3 2016, 04:23 PM

This is actually a serious question.

Are these top players, ACTUALLY sitting at their computer's button mashing their hunts out or is everything being done via some external 3rd party program.

Also, What do these people do with their lives, do they work, are they so rich they dont have to do anything besides play nexus all day?

Something doesnt add up between people who have lives and these top hunters.

If you are a top top top person, can you explain to us your daily routine, just curious.

Posted by: BeReal Aug 3 2016, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 3 2016, 05:23 PM) *
This is actually a serious question.

Are these top players, ACTUALLY sitting at their computer's button mashing their hunts out or is everything being done via some external 3rd party program.

Also, What do these people do with their lives, do they work, are they so rich they dont have to do anything besides play nexus all day?

Something doesnt add up between people who have lives and these top hunters.

If you are a top top top person, can you explain to us your daily routine, just curious.



I wondered the same questions as well. however, obviously we know what happened with Egg.

Valandil and Eggs do indeed hunt legit, however they've also been playing the game off and on for 18 years.

Which is exactly why people are pushing for a catch up mechanic up to Sa San.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 3 2016, 06:20 PM

8 of the top 20 players are legit hunters who have never botted, shared, or sold. For the most part it's just a battle of attrition for them with 1-4 maxes a day for years at a time, and then when events like wisdom star or pirates or asmodii come out they bump that up to like 30+ maxes a day.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 3 2016, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 07:20 PM) *
8 of the top 20 players are legit hunters who have never botted, shared, or sold. For the most part it's just a battle of attrition for them with 1-4 maxes a day for years at a time, and then when events like wisdom star or pirates or asmodii come out they bump that up to like 30+ maxes a day.


I get that but how in the world do these people do such a thing for so many years in a row. Do people not have lives or do things outside of a computer?
How does one make enough money to support rent/food/entertainment outside of this game if you put that many hours into it.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 3 2016, 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 3 2016, 04:30 PM) *
I get that but how in the world do these people do such a thing for so many years in a row. Do people not have lives or do things outside of a computer?
How does one make enough money to support rent/food/entertainment outside of this game if you put that many hours into it.

It's honestly not that hard, it just has to be your main hobby. Work 9-5, come home and hunt for 1-3 hours a night. You'll be really, really, really buff after doing that for a decade.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 3 2016, 09:03 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 06:42 PM) *
It's honestly not that hard, it just has to be your main hobby. Work 9-5, come home and hunt for 1-3 hours a night. You'll be really, really, really buff after doing that for a decade.


Careful you might confuse people and they will think it's not hard to get to those stats. They're able to do that because they have the stats. People under Sa stats have a harder time finding people to play with. And of course you know that. Just making it clear for those who don't.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 3 2016, 09:13 PM

Oh true, I don't mean to mince words. That's kind of the point though like you have to GRIND for 3-4 years+++ to get to what will be the new content. That's absurd.

Multiple people on in game boards want the game to stay exactly as is and "giving people easy ways to get stats takes the challenge out of the game."

Here's some riveting replies:

QUOTE (Aughra)
Imagine if people made climbing K2 super easy or Everest.
Well people have made it easier by risking their lives to make a living (sherpas and high altitude porters). And totally unskilled, suicidal inexperienced climbers do climb K2 somehow, and Everest (which is easier). Why should we make it easier for them? It's their choice to risk multiple people's lives going. I hate that mentality.
I would rather practice climing for 10-15 years on smaller mountains, plan my diet, train in high altitude for a prolonged amount of time, prepare by bringing lots of oxygen, proper food and drink. I wouldn't have someone do it all for me. I'd bring a radio and climb with a friend or alone, and communicate, and never do anything dangerous like summit late.
I will probably never do that anyway.
If we made 99 and il san hunts more enjoyable who would need sam san or sa san to have fun. Sage is easier to get now, only problem besides alliances would be how boring hunting is.
But we'll probably never get event caves frequently.
Just learn to cook healthy, get involved in sport and do something else. Why even get mad about it? I really only wanna get buff on my mage.
NOTHING in life worth getting should be easy. Maybe arrangements can be made for disabled, injured, young or old people.
I've told so many people struggling with veganism, weight or exercise. I've told them what to do I even offered to do it for them or with them. I don't even know why I'm making points here.
Just make max ancients, avatars, celestials and paramount characters. And maybe a couple sam ones for crusades.


QUOTE (SilentS 1)
Every year, I hear the same thing, and almost by the same people actually. "I want a way to make my lower level characters catch up to the top people in the game for less work than what they have done"... My few worthless cents on the issue:

<b>End Game Content!
Umm... WHAT end game content? For starters there is no real end game here. And whatever those top players in the game have access to, majority already have access to it. Aside from the very small handfull of caves that are Sam+, they are in the same caves that even EE's have access to for the most part. There is no end to Nexus. People will always keep getting stronger under the current structure. Making the "catch up" scenario useless.

Here is one that has cycled around a few times over the years:
<b>The game starts at 99!
No, it does not. It starts the moment you log in. There is plenty of content in the game sub 99. The ONLY issue at hand here is that the small population makes it hard to do much sub 99 since everybody is so gun-ho about getting leeched to EE+. This is what is making the lower levels and stats irrelevant and making those who are there really frustrated in finding no hunts.

<b>People cannot spend the time to catch up!
So? There is no real need for anybody to "catch up" to those who are in the top 100. There is nothing special about it. There is nothing really new and exciting about being there outside of just simply being the strongest. I have been in Nexus for 20 years. I started in my final year of Highschool. Meaning for the past 19 1/2 years I have been part of the "Work force" full time. For those who know me, they know I have juggled many jobs here WHILE working 12-14 hour shifts back when I was Elder, among other positions. I also was able to hunt decently (when I did). Even as a parent now, still possible.

<b>Conclusion:
I could rant and/or ramble on about everything that has been said on this issue for posts, but that is just a waste of my time. While changes here are needed, boosting the weak is not one of them at this time. Other fixes need attention to start getting new blood here (Tangun removal to start), and to draw back older players who left. Once this actually happens, then ALL levels would be relevant again, and make this whole matter moot, outside of the power/stat hungry hunters.


QUOTE (SilentS 2)
No, you dont "get it".

You obviously missed my point in my last paragraph. And no, my age here has nothing to do with anything, they were just mere examples on the complaints. OTHER fixes are needed here first to get people to start playing AND stay. Once that happens, then this current argument is invalid. Only the people who would cry about this, aside from yourself, are the ones who want things haneded to them. In this case, high statted players.

You keep whining about time. Well that is life in general. You have to work to earn something. Some things are easier than others. Hunting here is already WAY too mindless and easy. Under your reasonings, why do we even bother with pre EE? Why not just have everybody start off at EE stats? Think that would actually help? No it wouldnt. You quite literally sound like somebody who is an able bodied person on welfare who refuses to work when a job is available, and wants more money to stay at home ((this is an extreme example, but something I have seen personally)) just because you dont feel like it is worth your time to earn your own keep.


You're statements here do nothing to better the game. It is too focused on what you want to become (a top 50 player) rather than what is needed to make this place better starting from the ground up. Remember, if new players who keep trying this game (yes they do exist) do not make it past Tangun (granted that Tangun does not make them quit itself, which is the case most times), then the post 99 issues wont ever get better with the ever dwindling population.

Sure hunting needs to be changed in some ways, but not in this way. Hunting is not the only thing to do here. It is not the "end all" either. So drop that delusion. But here is a scenario.... Say everybody gets the bonus exp boosts under each Mark, then everybody is at Sam, or even Sa. Then what? Aside from your stats, nothing will have changed here. You still wont catch the top 100 players. Top 200 is about Oh stats to get in too. You start crying that those under Oh deserve 3x exp now to catch up?





This whole issue is ridiculous and looking at the wrong fixes that this place really needs.... Leave post 99 alone, fix pre 99 to get new players to stay, THEN work upwards..... Ugh todays gamers are too spoiled.....


QUOTE (SilentMeteor)
First off, I love you man. To me your a well respected awsome part of this game. Because of you this game is better for sure. But man, the things you are asking for. Your "fixes" too extreme in my opinion. I dont want the game to change. leave the spells alone. They have worked this far. The spells, are part of what nexus is. (change poet HB? you kill them all regardless)


Now for your gap in the power list. I dont care about the numbers. I feel it is a huge hurdle. 1600hrs to Oh san or w/e. That is part of this game too. YOU HAVE TO EARN IT. Just like you or anyone else has to earn it. What? we want everyone to be sa sans or oh sans at the gate? I dont, took me too long to get one of my characters sa san. Why shouldn't others have to do work for it. I agree with new content. Things like differnt balancers for carnies. We have crusades for a "more level" Pk. I agree with new areas for all levels with increased experience output. "new content" is good. Leave the old stuff alone. IMO its not nexus when u start changing what always has been.


I want to say more but i feel like if i go too deep ill end up with my foot in my mouth. So ill go with that. Be careful what you guys ask for. No one knows this game better than us. This new guy at the controls is smart, but how can he top 18 yrs experience of, IMO, the greatest MMORPG in existence? NO WAY NO HOW.



QUOTE (BagOfChips/Solman)
Alright I heard enough of this silly topic. Is there a stat gap? Oh you bet. Should people be able to reach Sa san or Oh san within a few days time? Hell no. Should it be easier? Eh that is debatable.

You have to realize those who spent years to get their stats, if you are just gonna make it so people can catch them on a whim, its pathetic.

Again I will never advocate the easy way. People need to earn their merits in this game. Wealth and stats included. That being said, most people do not know where or how to hunt effectively and efficently as possible. This is okay. We however do need more places where these optimized places are to allow more people to hunt said places. This is a general must.

As time goes on we will get caves and places that has more and faster exp. This is just a natural growth of any game like this. However again you can not limit the time and effort put into a character by huge fractions of time. IE if it takes 1600 hours to get OH san stats. A new player should not be able to obtain this in say 100 hours. At the very least it should take them 1200-1400 hours as of right now. Its gotta be a progression of faster exp.

How do we do this? Again more of the optimized hunting areas so multiple groups can take advantage and not just 1. Throw a few more quests and so forth that reward good exp. If I can be a new player and get EE san stats 320k/160k in 1 week (if I have no life) then those who dont have the time should be over a year. Add quests and we can argue maybe 3/4ths of a year. But to say those who can get EE san in a week and all of a sudden these guys can get EE san in say 2 days is utterly stupid.

We are not talking about these crazy power hunters anymore that hunt 24/7. Most of those are gone. So catching these buff characters shouldnt be as big of an issue anymore. Again, put in the work, and quit getting everything and i do mean EVERYTHING handed to you.


When I read these I feel like I'm taking [Content removed]ing crazy pills.

Posted by: SilentS Aug 4 2016, 07:10 AM

Meh. Not going to defend myself, just stating a point. My second post was after listening to the person I replied to whine for a good hour and a bit repeating the same lines over and over again trying to justify his words on clan chat. I stand by my replies and still say Nexus needs changes from the bottom up, not starting at the top. As it is the double exp is still in effect for those who are under 99, but exp gain is the least of our worries at this moment.

Posted by: mlswm Aug 4 2016, 07:34 AM

literally every other game ever has catch up mechanics and it doesn't ruin anything
like yea sorry you took 18 years to get oh san vita or whatever but it shouldn't take everyone else that long to catch up to current content
anyone who disagrees is legit stupid and it doesn't even need an explanation.
the game has been static for 10+ years and that's why it is total garbage
you talk about today's gamers being spoiled but this isn't 1995 anymore. we're not playing everquest. people don't want to do that [Content removed] anymore. if you want new people to try the game and stay then you need to adapt it to current times. people should be able to play casually and still participate in current content.

you sound like an old bitter dude yelling at kids to get off his lawn. maybe you just need to croak already.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 4 2016, 09:06 AM

How about all new content that comes out, you put people into 1 cave and their exp just gets scaled appropriately instead. Have a balancer type of system so that lower level people and higher level people could be on the same platform for events, this would mean more people in the caves that we need to be in to accomplish the end goal?

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 4 2016, 09:28 AM

For perspective, the stat tiers in NexusTK are:

Il san : 160,000 Vitality or 80,000 Mana
Ee san : 320,000 Vitality or 160,000 Mana
Sam san : 640,000 Vitality or 320,000 Mana
Sa san : 1,280,000 Vitality or 640,000 Mana
Oh san : 2,560,000 Vitality or 1,280,000 Mana
Yuk san 5,120,000 Vitality or 2,560,000 Mana
Chil san 10,240,000 Vitality or 5,120,000 Mana
Pal san: 20,480,000 Vitality or 10,240,000 Mana
Gu san : 40,960,000 Vitality or 20,480,000 Mana
Ship san 81,920,000 Vitality or 40,960,000 Mana.

Eggs is ranked #7 and has reached 6.8M Vita and 2M Mana. I can't see the stats of those above eggs because they are private, but it is safe to assume the rest of them are above Yuk san as well.

Going down the list, Dobby is at rank #27 and shows his stats as 3M / 2.4M so he's just under the qualifications for Yuk san.

That means presently there is 26 characters in the game who stand in the sixth tier and as it stands right now, it would take many years for a new player to reach that tier. This is important.

The concern isn't so much that new players need to "catch up" to the highest stat players but rather that the high stat players and new players both need activity partners to play the game, and there currently are major issues with allowing them to hunt together.

NexusTK has a significant bottleneck problem in its design, which is a huge flaw due to its low player population.

Characters having insanely higher stats than the rest of the population is only a game balance issue in PVP events like Carnages, and when the game population is so low that the top Warriors, Rogues and Mages monopolize the Poets, making it hard for players of much lower stats to find hunting partners.

The former can be solved with the balancer items that limit a character's max stats in a carnage division. That's easy enough to address.

The latter problem is tougher to solve.

The obvious solution to address high stat players monopolizing Poets is to create new cave tiers for Sa san+ but if these characters were placed into their own new cave tiers some people would find they could no longer find a hunt anymore due to a low number of Poets who can enter; for example with Yuk san, there is exactly 7 poets who would be available. Bear in mind, there is only 27 players above Yuk san. Do they all play at the same time? Do they all get along? Will they enjoy hunting with each other? The answers to these questions are likely to be "No".

The players whose main activity for years has been to PvE need to be able to hunt in order to maintain interest in the game. If they can't login and find a hunt in a reasonable time frame, they will quit.

At the same time, because of the low player population you need the most veteran players to be able to interact with the newbies in order for the newbies to become integrated into the online community and become loyal subscribers. Most games these days now address the issue by creating instance dungeons and a "Duty Finder" mechanic that matches veteran players with new players to run a dungeon, and both players get rewards suitable to their rank (newbies gets XP and new gear; veterans get special currency to buy special high level gear). Balance is maintained by level scaling the veteran character down to the same stats as the newbie. But NexusTK does not use instanced dungeons so this is more difficult to implement, though not impossible.

It could very well be a good solution is to go ahead and implement new cave tiers at Sa san+, but at the same time implement a way for veteran characters to scale down their stats to party with lower stat characters via some kind of new mentor system (probably http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Sidekick where the level scaling is dependent on the level of the character -- or in NexusTK's case, the levels and San marks. So if an Oh san Warrior chose to mentor an Il san Poet, the Oh san warriors vita and mana would adjust to max out at Il san Vita and Mana. ).

Both the character being mentored and the mentor would find it easier to form a party regardless of level with no accusations of "leeching". All that would be needed is to add a level scale mechanic to items (so that Oh san spikes now gain the stats of Il san spikes during mentoring, for example), spells that exceed the mentor's adjusted level would be disabled (you temporarily can't use sa san spells if you are scaled to il san) and a reward mechanic that veterans would find useful (probably an extremely large experience multiplier so that hunting in an Il san cave at Yuk san stats would actually merit you good XP generation for buying stats at Yuk san tier).

Posted by: Krmit Aug 4 2016, 10:39 AM

I cant believe i am saying i agree fully with DM's assessment however i doubt any really high players even want to associate with people that they dont know because they're so reclusive and cliquey. Most whom i know i have known for 18 years socially from community aspect because i have been playing so long but i was never driven by hunting in game.

Which is why i care so little about extreme stat gain. I enjoy casually hunting, going to carnage and community events, being a part of subpath's etc. We all have different motivation as to why we play this game.
Some people grow their E-Peen through being good @ PVP, some like stat notoriety on the power list.

I do think though that building new caves for the highest players is not worth it though, I mean how much faster do you need to max out when its already happening in 1-2 rages. What do they expect to max out in 1 swing? There comes a point in time when if you want to get higher, grind it out in the same cave or make different caves same EXP in like a Diablo 3 type of format where the map could change every time you enter as to not get bored in the same caves.

The problem is people refuse to hunt anyplace else but the best places, even if it could mean maxing out in 18 minutes over 15 minutes. There are plenty of places in nexus to hunt for EXP. The more exp you start giving those top top's, the farther and longer the gap will be to close.

Fundamentally, nexus has always been about players having the unlimited potential to grow their characters, but i dont think even 20 years ago it was expected that it would come to people being 6m+++ in stats.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 4 2016, 12:05 PM

DM is right with most of that. I still think the biggest issue is that it takes so obnoxiously long to hit the content floors.

1. To reach sam san it takes you 44 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So realistically more like 70-90 hours of power hunting. On top of that you have to wait SIX MONTHS to get Sage 5. For reference it takes about 50-70 hours to go from having never flown a plane to obtaining your flying license. A bachelor's degree takes around 96 hours of classwork.

2. To reach sa san it takes 144 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So more like 220ish hours depending on your path to sam san/vort 3 stats. 200 hours. On top of that you have to wait FOUR. HUNDRED. DAYS. TO COMPLETE THE MINOR QUEST TRIAL. 400 DAYS. For reference the formal training time for electricians to become fully licensed and apple is 144 clock hours of classroom on top of their work schedule.

3. To reach oh san it will take you 526 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So, again, more like 600ish. 600 hours. We have no idea if there will be additional time trials, but assuming there isn't 600 hours is the average amount of time it would take to complete your bachelors, your masters, and your doctorate for almost any non STEM field.

So, this is a video game. It's a game. A game. Games need to be designed for people assuming this can't be their full time job, and they need to be designed in a way that brings people to the CONTENT FLOOR as soon as possible. The content floor is the highest mark you can currently reach in the game. The content ceiling is limitless.

Posted by: SilentS Aug 4 2016, 01:35 PM

Typing on my phone, so going to keep this brief.

When talking about time needed to get these stats, keep in mind those are under optimal LEECHING conditions. No new 99 is going to max every 30 min hunting with a group of their own stats. Same with Ilsan. Depending on what their play time per day is, it could possibly take 2-3 days to get an equivalent max. So that time theory doesn't work in this.

The Sam/sa time trials, by the time you get sa, you would be over half was to sa on MQ's. Remember, those trial's are not there for us, but rather for Kru to keep us regging.

As I have said before, other fixes are needed first. Ways to keep new players playing, then make the game less monotonous to play. Add more content. Doing that, if successful, could bring the population up. In turn it would give people more options to hunt and/or interact with others. DM' ideas and assessment are on the right track though.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 4 2016, 01:50 PM

Uhm, of course that time theory works. The fact that those are ideal LEECHING conditions means it takes even LONGER to do things (which I factored in if you wanted to read through again). Just proves my point even more.

What other fix needs to be done before this? More content isn't going to make player's play more. "It takes 6 months to get to the 3rd mark, 400 days to get to the 4th mark? Man I'll go play any other game in the world." That kills anyone's ambition to play right out of the gate, no matter what gets added to the game.

Things that need to be done: path balancing, subpath balancing, put in engaging content for hunting, fix itemization. All of these things are needed, but are not as needed as fixing the exp issues and time gating that the game has. You will not gain or retain any new players as long as the time gating is in. You won't, you haven't.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 4 2016, 02:29 PM

I dont quite agree with you Doc that new players would be "SOOOOOOOOOOO outa here the minute they start playing" I helped out a new player the other day gave him a military fork, some ambrosias and what not, he just registered for first time and was level 50.

The last thing he was asking about is "how long does it take to get sam san?" He was actually very interested in the game mechanic of being able to sell exp after 99 to become stronger. For some people (what you miss) is this can offer many many more chalanges such as stronger caves, stronger bosses, new areas to explore. For a new player exploration and understanding everythig about this game can take so much time in itself. You are a veteran, you understand the game but do not look at it objectively as a new player. You are looking at it as a new player but through the eyes of someone who has seen it all and has nothing left to expereience.

Congrats its called, you reached an end game, but for possibly many other new players out there there really is a decent amount of content, the unfortunate thing is the lack of people in their level range to actively engage with, or a cold community of people so high up on their horses that they wont want to help.

I enjoy trying to seek some of these players out and will spend my time hunting bosses, ogre caves, mantis, and what not to be able to hook them up with some new cool items that will help them on their journey because as you , i have experienced much also it is enjoyable to me to try to give back to some new players especially with digital items that i will never use or need.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 4 2016, 03:12 PM

QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 4 2016, 02:29 PM) *
I dont quite agree with you Doc that new players would be "SOOOOOOOOOOO outa here the minute they start playing" I helped out a new player the other day gave him a military fork, some ambrosias and what not, he just registered for first time and was level 50.

The last thing he was asking about is "how long does it take to get sam san?" He was actually very interested in the game mechanic of being able to sell exp after 99 to become stronger. For some people (what you miss) is this can offer many many more chalanges such as stronger caves, stronger bosses, new areas to explore. For a new player exploration and understanding everythig about this game can take so much time in itself. You are a veteran, you understand the game but do not look at it objectively as a new player. You are looking at it as a new player but through the eyes of someone who has seen it all and has nothing left to expereience.

Congrats its called, you reached an end game, but for possibly many other new players out there there really is a decent amount of content, the unfortunate thing is the lack of people in their level range to actively engage with, or a cold community of people so high up on their horses that they wont want to help.

I enjoy trying to seek some of these players out and will spend my time hunting bosses, ogre caves, mantis, and what not to be able to hook them up with some new cool items that will help them on their journey because as you , i have experienced much also it is enjoyable to me to try to give back to some new players especially with digital items that i will never use or need.


Anyone who I have ever told you have to write poetry for progression, wait 365 days for progression or wait 400 days for progression has laughed and said W T F.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 4 2016, 04:07 PM

QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 4 2016, 04:12 PM) *
Anyone who I have ever told you have to write poetry for progression, wait 365 days for progression or wait 400 days for progression has laughed and said W T F.


If i tell an obese guy to run a marathon thats 400 lbs of pure fat, he will probably have to lose some weight before he can ever cross that finish line though first... right?

Posted by: Micoris Aug 4 2016, 04:29 PM

QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 4 2016, 04:07 PM) *
If i tell an obese guy to run a marathon thats 400 lbs of pure fat, he will probably have to lose some weight before he can ever cross that finish line though first... right?


Are these comments related? They don't feel related.

Posted by: Brancrese Aug 11 2016, 12:32 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 12:06 AM) *
Everyone between sa san and mega stats (top 5 of your path) is getting the same amount of experience, for the most part, which is around 24-30 minutes a max.



This is a perfect example of why, although I agree with your proposed changes and understand where you're coming from; it actually doesn't matter at all. Changing that curve doesn't actually make any difference, because once you hit a certain point, EXP is exactly the same, and the additional vita/mana you buy only help in PvP, which pretty much sucks anyway.

Not to beat a dead horse here, as I know it's been said a thousand times before, but a game simply cannot exist under that never ending stat formula. It cannot, and will not work, not now, not ever. Yes, you'll keep a few people around who don't mind grinding endlessly, doing the same thing over and over again, so they can feel cool that their arbitrary stat numbers, which don't actually get them anything anyway, are higher than someone else's. But you can't sustain a game on that.

There's a reason WoW has always had level caps, because when you expand, it's easy to get new people back up to that curve and put them in range to start playing the game with everyone else. You grind out for your gear, or gold, or to get achievements, not for stats. Sure, that loses them some people at the end of each expansion, as there's nothing left for them to do at some point. But it's sustainable, most of those people come back, once there's something new to do. There's a reason that game still has millions of subs, and is still the most successful MMO in the market.

Nexus has a flawed model. You can make things better, you can put in same changes that will enhance certain aspects, maybe bring some people back. But the PvE/PvP system will always be fundamentally broken as long as it's based on this never-ending stats model.

Posted by: CRKL Aug 11 2016, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 2 2016, 08:25 PM) *
To put that in even greater words, assuming you're getting maxes every 30 minutes no more no less, From sa san to oh san it will take you 1641.6 hours. If you wanted to catch up to Egg's stats, you would need to spend 6778 hours or 284 full days of your life hunting.


QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 4 2016, 01:05 PM) *
3. To reach oh san it will take you 526 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So, again, more like 600ish. 600 hours. We have no idea if there will be additional time trials, but assuming there isn't 600 hours is the average amount of time it would take to complete your bachelors, your masters, and your doctorate for almost any non STEM field.


I'm really tired but these numbers seem to be off

Posted by: Hijack Aug 11 2016, 05:52 PM

QUOTE (Brancrese @ Aug 11 2016, 12:32 PM) *
This is a perfect example of why, although I agree with your proposed changes and understand where you're coming from; it actually doesn't matter at all. Changing that curve doesn't actually make any difference, because once you hit a certain point, EXP is exactly the same, and the additional vita/mana you buy only help in PvP, which pretty much sucks anyway.

Not to beat a dead horse here, as I know it's been said a thousand times before, but a game simply cannot exist under that never ending stat formula. It cannot, and will not work, not now, not ever. Yes, you'll keep a few people around who don't mind grinding endlessly, doing the same thing over and over again, so they can feel cool that their arbitrary stat numbers, which don't actually get them anything anyway, are higher than someone else's. But you can't sustain a game on that.

There's a reason WoW has always had level caps, because when you expand, it's easy to get new people back up to that curve and put them in range to start playing the game with everyone else. You grind out for your gear, or gold, or to get achievements, not for stats. Sure, that loses them some people at the end of each expansion, as there's nothing left for them to do at some point. But it's sustainable, most of those people come back, once there's something new to do. There's a reason that game still has millions of subs, and is still the most successful MMO in the market.

Nexus has a flawed model. You can make things better, you can put in same changes that will enhance certain aspects, maybe bring some people back. But the PvE/PvP system will always be fundamentally broken as long as it's based on this never-ending stats model.


That's why having dynamic changing stats is a good idea for pvp (ie: balancers)

For pve? no issue with endless stats

Posted by: Doctor Aug 12 2016, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (Brancrese @ Aug 11 2016, 10:32 AM) *
This is a perfect example of why, although I agree with your proposed changes and understand where you're coming from; it actually doesn't matter at all. Changing that curve doesn't actually make any difference, because once you hit a certain point, EXP is exactly the same, and the additional vita/mana you buy only help in PvP, which pretty much sucks anyway.

Not to beat a dead horse here, as I know it's been said a thousand times before, but a game simply cannot exist under that never ending stat formula. It cannot, and will not work, not now, not ever. Yes, you'll keep a few people around who don't mind grinding endlessly, doing the same thing over and over again, so they can feel cool that their arbitrary stat numbers, which don't actually get them anything anyway, are higher than someone else's. But you can't sustain a game on that.

There's a reason WoW has always had level caps, because when you expand, it's easy to get new people back up to that curve and put them in range to start playing the game with everyone else. You grind out for your gear, or gold, or to get achievements, not for stats. Sure, that loses them some people at the end of each expansion, as there's nothing left for them to do at some point. But it's sustainable, most of those people come back, once there's something new to do. There's a reason that game still has millions of subs, and is still the most successful MMO in the market.

Nexus has a flawed model. You can make things better, you can put in same changes that will enhance certain aspects, maybe bring some people back. But the PvE/PvP system will always be fundamentally broken as long as it's based on this never-ending stats model.

Not disagreeing with you, we'll never get away from that model though.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 12 2016, 09:19 AM

I'm sorry but i'm only in the 500+/150+ range and i really don't care who has insane stats, i find my own ways to enjoy the game. If its stats/PVP you seek, go earn them, if it is power you seek in a sub path, work hard and become a guide/elder. If its quality role-play you seek, go to sub path and community events or host your own. If you are a creative writer, join many of the poetry and story contests that are held in the kingdoms daily/weekly.

There is much more to the game than just being teh most uber pk player alive. If someone wrecks you in sire, GO HUNT, you dont want to put in the time? DON'T CRY.

This generation as a whole is personified by some of the posts on this thread, which is that of the biggest (insert furry cat reference)'s ever. Everyone just wants wants wants wants wants, instead of going to earn it themselves regardless of how hard they think it may be.

Make no mistakes about it through, you bot or use 3rd party program's i have no pity for you when your ass gets banned. In addition, i hope that at some point in future Wony is able to look into this with grater detail than ever before.

Posted by: Doctor Aug 12 2016, 12:05 PM

What you're describing has nothing to do with "this generation of gamers." This is the gaming equivalent of "well back in my day I had to walk up hill 10 miles, twice, in the snow, just to get to school!" You're not talking about playing a game, or game design, you're talking as someone who isn't a gamer and doesn't play games. You're an old Nexus player. Not a gamer. It's never been a viable business option to have the time gating and infinite stat gap, that's why Nexus is the only game in the HISTORY OF GAMES to have it.

Everyone who is asking for less time gating and bringing people up to larger stat thresholds so more people can play the game together are buffer than you. We're past Oh San stats. This change doesn't even effect us. C'mon man.

Posted by: Brant Aug 12 2016, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 12 2016, 12:05 PM) *
What you're describing has nothing to do with "this generation of gamers." This is the gaming equivalent of "well back in my day I had to walk up hill 10 miles, twice, in the snow, just to get to school!" You're not talking about playing a game, or game design, you're talking as someone who isn't a gamer and doesn't play games. You're an old Nexus player. Not a gamer. It's never been a viable business option to have the time gating and infinite stat gap, that's why Nexus is the only game in the HISTORY OF GAMES to have it.

Everyone who is asking for less time gating and bringing people up to larger stat thresholds so more people can play the game together are buffer than you. We're past Oh San stats. This change doesn't even effect us. C'mon man.


You bring up a good point. There are so many people who play Nexus that probably don't even play any other game or would even be considered gamers. They started playing Nexus in it's prime when it was becoming a popular outlet for socializing. Look at the majority of people who have 'power' roles in Nexus, I highly doubt any of them even play any other game; and that's a huge problem.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 12 2016, 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Brant @ Aug 12 2016, 01:16 PM) *
You bring up a good point. There are so many people who play Nexus that probably don't even play any other game or would even be considered gamers. They started playing Nexus in it's prime when it was becoming a popular outlet for socializing. Look at the majority of people who have 'power' roles in Nexus, I highly doubt any of them even play any other game; and that's a huge problem.


When you strip away the PvP and PvE aspects of the game you are essentially left with a chat room where people have a page on their profile for legend marks.

Even with subpaths and clans, you essentially have players maintaining control over other players based on PvE and PvP advantages which these groups provide. Subpaths have always had spells that offer economic and combat advantages, and clans originally had the non-repairable clan helms whose AC was on par with uber rare sun helms (so unless you were rich, if you wanted the best AC helm you needed to be in a clan). Now of course helm AC is balanced differently by the introduction of new helms, but by that time the clans had already obtained crafting tables with higher success rates and easier access to banks to speed up the crafting process. There is also the kingdom defender dyes which are awarded to the most loyal players in the clans and people will do all kinds of mad things to earn the recognition.

The political leaders in the game may very well use the game primarily as a chat room but their influence is based largely on their control over other players having advantages in the game proper.

Because Archons hold subpath and clan leader positions they use their influence with GMs to ensure they maintain control. It's not so much that they may not play any other games but rather that their reason for playing the game is totally different than the rest of the playerbase. This is the only rational explanation for why their additions are so at odds for what is most beneficial for the game players and for KRU, and for why what is very obvious problems don't get addressed.

KRU really doesn't know what it is doing to maximize profits (ie. make a game that lots of people want to play) and relies too heavily on a small segment of the playerbase that has ulterior motives in their advice. This is the single biggest problem with how KRU operates and it will always hinder the problems getting addressed.

Given this, I have a strong suspicion the reason KRU has introduced these ridiculous orb items that can only be used by 99+ players and address none of the pre-99 design issues that hurt new player recruitment (which is what needs addressing more than anything). The idea was almost certainly proposed by some Archon claiming they can use these orbs to "playtest new content" but who really just wanted to gain the advantage of the effects.

Any other developer would simply use the playtest server to test these ideas in a way that isolates their effects from the real server so that improperly balanced content doesn't negatively impact the paid game. KRU instead does something this absurd. There's a reason for this and I deduce it is because KRU is the only MMORPG developer that doesn't hire knowledgeable game designers and instead relies on volunteer players who receive payment in influence over the game -- which they use as a crutch to make themselves feel better about their inadequacies in the real world.

Edit: Before someone tries to make a jab at me for spending time on these forums (which I am sure certain individuals are wanton to do:

My interest in NexusTK for the past several years has mostly been out of nostalgia. I'm curious about what happens in a game I spent a lot of my teenage years in. I also have an interest in seeing what will ultimately make the game pivot to success or finally succumb to closure; either outcome has value for me as I work as a consultant for entertainment companies and the use case has much to learn from it. Thinking about the problems facing KRU is a useful thought experiment, especially since I know the game so well.

But when I finish this post I'm going to go back to my semi-retired life where I don't have any schedule except what I decide to do. I have reliable steady income even if I do not work because I've made the correct investments of my time and money, and I travel as I desire. I've been successful in my life.

I know this is not the case for the people who have invested all of their free time into gaining and maintaining political influence in NexusTK. Part of me pities them but the other part disdains them for obstruction of what could have been an extremely popular and successful game. This wasted potential offends me in a primal way, however irrational it might be. It's just the kind of person that I am.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 12 2016, 04:02 PM

I can't believe it took them this long to finally enable damage numbers when "disneyland" (you know what I'm talking about) had it enabled ~8 years ago through a .dll modification. This is something games have had for the past 16 years or so, and there was no reason to just disable it. It shows you how out of touch the previous developers were with gamers. I give them a little props for making it a toggleable thing.

Posted by: Conro Aug 12 2016, 05:08 PM

I can't see explaining away any sort of time gating for features in the game.

I can see time gating for things that aren't core to the game (like glamour rewards for being registered), but having to wait 400 days just to actually access the end game is an instant turn off.

If someone wants to start a game and no life it and grind to the end game as quickly as possible, they should be allowed to do it. They shouldn't have to pay the company an excess of a hundred bucks and sit around for over a year just to join friends who are in end game content using end game gear and abilities.

There's a reason this game never took off and this was a BIG part of it. Every friend I tried to get to play liked the core concept of the game and the mechanics, but hated the time gating and the absolute horrible grind it took just to get them to level 99. It's just not fun leveling, period.

Posted by: Hijack Aug 13 2016, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (Conro @ Aug 12 2016, 05:08 PM) *
There's a reason this game never took off and this was a BIG part of it. Every friend I tried to get to play liked the core concept of the game and the mechanics, but hated the time gating and the absolute horrible grind it took just to get them to level 99. It's just not fun leveling, period.


bingo

The designer who came up with this concept is a [Content removed]ing moron.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 15 2016, 08:34 AM

QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 13 2016, 11:52 AM) *
bingo

The designer who came up with this concept is a [Content removed]ing moron.


Because you know, god forbid you play a game where you have to level up.
Welcome all to the age of entitlement.

Posted by: Brant Aug 15 2016, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 15 2016, 08:34 AM) *
Because you know, god forbid you play a game where you have to level up.
Welcome all to the age of entitlement.


That's something that old people say.

Truth is, with so many platforms and other games available, you have to be able to make your game worth sticking around for. Even AAA title games now are only seeing playtime for a couple of weeks, then people go on to the next game. You don't see developers making as many MMOs anymore because 1) They take a huge amount of time to develop 2) you have to keep the servers up and running, continuous maintenance 3) you have to keep your player base interested and providing new content constantly.

What's the last big MMO you can think of that has been released that had any type of praise? I honestly can't even think of one off the top of my head.

Posted by: Krmit Aug 15 2016, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Brant @ Aug 15 2016, 10:19 AM) *
That's something that old people say.

Truth is, with so many platforms and other games available, you have to be able to make your game worth sticking around for. Even AAA title games now are only seeing playtime for a couple of weeks, then people go on to the next game. You don't see developers making as many MMOs anymore because 1) They take a huge amount of time to develop 2) you have to keep the servers up and running, continuous maintenance 3) you have to keep your player base interested and providing new content constantly.

What's the last big MMO you can think of that has been released that had any type of praise? I honestly can't even think of one off the top of my head.


The popular advertised game of choice nowadays is any mobile app game that becomes a hit. The field is rapidly changing and there is no identity. One day its clash of clans, the next day pokemon go (gps based), or candy crush (turn based puzzle game) because they are so easy to develop and accessible to a billion people with astronomic earning potential via a play store.

The problem with those games? Most of them lack depth and only continue to reiterate the, me me me gotta have it now style of if you cant do it in 2-3 minutes, forget about it or buy some cash item instead of working to try to figure out the trick to the game or understand the algorithm. The average person is too simple minded and 'one try and f**** this' kind of mentality.
There is still a large population of gamers out there who appreciate a good game with quality and depth but it seems the genre of MMO is somewhat in decline from what it was 15 years ago.

That being said there is the reason you do not see blockbuster mmo releases with the "praise" to the level of some of the mobile games i just mentioned. But there are very good games still out there and constantly being created, as well as good old onese still surviving.

Posted by: Conro Aug 15 2016, 04:23 PM

Krmit, you don't seem to understand "pointless, playerless, helpless grind to just access the part of the game people actually play in" with a leveling experience a player can do on their own OR with a party if they can find one and get to the end game without having to beg for people to hunt with them or leech them.

You're not going to find just regular players in sub-99 areas of this game, it just doesn't happen.

If the game had a method of getting to 99 on your own that didn't take MONTHS, I could see your argument, but it doesn't. Period.

FFXIV has a great quest driven path that takes you to the end game. WoW has the same. They also include elements that pair you with other players WITHOUT having to go through a helpless process of finding other players just to continue.

Posted by: darkmaverick Aug 15 2016, 05:24 PM

QUOTE (Conro @ Aug 15 2016, 04:23 PM) *
FFXIV has a great quest driven path that takes you to the end game. WoW has the same. They also include elements that pair you with other players WITHOUT having to go through a helpless process of finding other players just to continue.


Gameplay also consists of more than just holding down spacebar to attack, or spamming 1-2 spells.

By contrast pre-99 gameplay for all classes in NexusTK is either one or the other. It's boring as hell compared to practically any other MMORPG that has came out in the past 10 years.

Thus in NexusTK it's not only practically impossible to level up by yourself pre-99 at a reasonable pace, it's incredibly boring to do so. Add the requirement to pay $9.99 a month for the privilege of being bored out of your mind and it's not hard to imagine why the game has a high turnover among new players.

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