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> Barbarian Elder(s)?, I don't get it.
SilentS
post Oct 6 2008, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE(Brant @ Oct 6 2008, 04:51 PM) [snapback]64158[/snapback]
I won't disagree with that, but none of these rules are set in stone -- no, not even in Ancient Korea.
-Brant
I agree. Especially with some Archons who keep rewriting them for no friggin reason most of the time aside from the fact that they just can.


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PIEMINISTER
post Oct 6 2008, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE(darkmaverick @ Oct 6 2008, 06:43 PM)

I'm glad Winder finally passed the torch. That means both Do and Barbarians have new Elders, and maybe some new growth for their paths.

Now let's see some of these other Elders do it.




i wonder who he's referring to...


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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BeffyCabeza
post Oct 6 2008, 06:56 PM
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I already told Orion he's not going to like me for what I'm about to say. And it is my personal opinion. Take leave it, like it, hate it whatever.

I do agree with the upholding of the Elder rule. If the rules are bent for one person, than the rules should be bent for everyone. You have someone who actually does char share a lot, and they want to be Elder, you tell them 'Hey no you can't you were banned for X days for it' 'Well Orion got to be Elder and he was banned for a month'. We all know how Nexus is, and someone would throw a book at someone over it. Even though it was a stupid idea on Orion's part to Char Share, he has to take the repercussions of his actions. Which from my understanding of the situation he has done so very eloquently. So I do give him kudos for handling it as well as he has. But I do not agree with bending the rules just because you like someone.

As for Gobiin, everyone is giving him an extremely hard time because they don't know him 'Oh god he's a new Barb.' When in fact, he is not. People outside the path are trying to get involved because who they wanted as Elder was not chosen. Hell even people in the path are giving him a hard time because who they wanted as Elder wasn't picked. It is not an easy job, it is a thankless job. There is no 'happy decision' on who is the next Elder. At least give him a chance before you go parading around saying he's a horrible Elder. He hasn't even been elder 48 Hours, and people are crucifying him.

Barbarians is not an easy path to be Elder of. I've been in the path somewhere around 4 yrs, it's not easy to even be there.

So what if his RP is a little different. Nexus is a game, we're here to have fun. We're there to escape who we really are. If he wants to RP having green skin and no pores, more power to him for upholding that Roleplay, instead of reverting back to something else because it's not 'accepted by everyone' Chill out a little please people.

All in all I'm saying, wait and see what he does because you try to call foul.


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darkmaverick
post Oct 6 2008, 07:07 PM
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Beffy, I think the opinions of the majority of a path's membership should be able to outweigh the opinion of an Elder.

I don't know all the details of this elder change, or care that much about it, but I would like to see paths decide on their next Elders though. You can't expect people to want to be apart of organizations they have little input in.

By principle, I don't like seeing people remain Elder longer than a year, and I do want to see subpath members be able to choose their Elders. If an Elder doesn't agree with their path, it only demonstrates how out of touch they are with the very people they are supposed to be leading.

As for GMs telling people they can't be Elders.....we have to consider this is not just a community, but a videogame. Some people forget this when they think about subpaths, and wrongfully believe the GM has no right to interfere in subpath matters. Subpaths are huge part of game mechanics, and the GM should be able to interfere.

On the other hand, I don't think Archons should be allowed to make decisions about who can be Elder. Archons are players. Despite what good intentions they may have, they are not bound like an actual GM is to ensure fairness for all players.

If an Archon screws up and make lots of people angry, the worst that happens to an Archon is they could be banned. They don't lose anything but their characters, and are free to play another game.

However, if they are an employee, they need to find a new job. They potentially lose their house / apartment, car, ability to eat, etc

The consequences of abusing your influence as a player is insignificant compared to the consequences of doing so as GM. That is why only GMs should have the ability to make decisions like this.



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PikuDamaru
post Oct 6 2008, 07:09 PM
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Stupid rules have stupid repercussions. If mug doesn't enforce a rule or give a damn about being up on their existence, why the hell is the rest of the world so gung-ho about enforcing them? I'll tell you why:

GAME MASTERS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN A GAME WHO HAVE -REAL- POWER

The reason Archon's change rules? The reason Elders / Carnage Hosts / ect. make silly rules or try and get someone's life ruined over something silly is because it's the ONLY way for them to PRETEND they have power.

By not letting Orion become Elder, the people who run this game are giving nearly everyone a huge slap in the face, YET AGAIN.

I wonder why you all tolerate such awful customer service. Making a silly rule to mask an issue isn't a fix. Stop buying into it.

Reality is, I don't play anymore. I haven't for a while now. My past visits were short. Only reason I'm writing this post is because Orion is a good friend, and I know what kind of person he is. Like I told him, I'm self-centered and power hungry and I would STILL have voted him Elder over myself. That's how worthy he is.


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Hijack
post Oct 6 2008, 08:00 PM
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Okay let me clarify myself here. The decision to make Orion elder does in fact effect me, because I was too banned long ago. So basically whatever decision is made about Orion will then decide if I or anyone else in that position will ever be able to become a head anything. The rule is very simple, and very clear. If you're banned for anything, you cannot be the head of any organization. So far everyone has been following the rules perfectly fine until now, so why should the rule be bent specifically for you?

Kikoura you're only siding with him because you want geomancer elder. Ulterior motives at play.
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Doctor
post Oct 6 2008, 08:15 PM
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She's siding with him because Orion would have been the best elder and they are good friends.

I wonder if Kru perma banning you, then realizing that they royally [Content removed]ed up and unban you TWICE is the same.

Huh Kru? HUH!?


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Musoyan
post Oct 6 2008, 08:24 PM
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Although I believe Orion is a good person, you cannot say that this was a "mistake". He knew the consequences that could happen and he took the chance and was busted. He wasn't some beginning player that is new to the game, hes been playing for years. All actions have consequences and this is one of them. I'm still trying to figure out why Winder even allowed this to go on in the first place, knowing it would cause more controversy and speculation about Orion. IMO its just a slap in the face.

I've asked quite a few Barbarians who Gobiin is and none of them say they know. Time shall tell.
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Adam
post Oct 6 2008, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(BeffyCabeza @ Oct 6 2008, 05:56 PM) [snapback]64166[/snapback]
I do agree with the upholding of the Elder rule. If the rules are bent for one person, than the rules should be bent for everyone. You have someone who actually does char share a lot, and they want to be Elder, you tell them 'Hey no you can't you were banned for X days for it' 'Well Orion got to be Elder and he was banned for a month'. I do not agree with bending the rules just because you like someone.


No, the rules should not be bent. Not for Orion, nor anyone else. Instead, the rules need to be CHANGED; they need to handle these rare situations in a case-by-case manner. There are many different ways a situation like this may be handled. For example, the path could vote on who should become Elder out of a few willing candidates, then if perchance the one that is chosen has been banned before, the GM will decide whether or not the selected person will become Elder.


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Brant
post Oct 6 2008, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE(PikuDamaru @ Oct 6 2008, 07:09 PM) [snapback]64171[/snapback]

Stupid rules have stupid repercussions. If mug doesn't enforce a rule or give a damn about being up on their existence, why the hell is the rest of the world so gung-ho about enforcing them? I'll tell you why:

GAME MASTERS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN A GAME WHO HAVE -REAL- POWER

The reason Archon's change rules? The reason Elders / Carnage Hosts / ect. make silly rules or try and get someone's life ruined over something silly is because it's the ONLY way for them to PRETEND they have power.

By not letting Orion become Elder, the people who run this game are giving nearly everyone a huge slap in the face, YET AGAIN.

I wonder why you all tolerate such awful customer service. Making a silly rule to mask an issue isn't a fix. Stop buying into it.

Reality is, I don't play anymore. I haven't for a while now. My past visits were short. Only reason I'm writing this post is because Orion is a good friend, and I know what kind of person he is. Like I told him, I'm self-centered and power hungry and I would STILL have voted him Elder over myself. That's how worthy he is.



It might be a shot in the dark, but I'm assuming Maiyu and Dalnum made their decision for two logical reasons:

1: A rule exists that states that a character can not become Elder of a Subpath if he/she has been banned for any length of time.

2: If Orion was made an exception to this rule, or the rule was changed for Orion, there would be more trouble than exists now. If in the future the rule is changed without there being a specific need at the time, it would be fair to the whole community.

There are many players that do not have the option to hold certain positions because of this rule. Orion should not be made an exception just because he may be the best choice for Elder.

Orion should consider himself lucky, seeing as he served his one month ban before specific rules were set for Character Sharing. Now, you don't walk away without at least a jail mark, and in most cases you only get a two week ban -- Orion got a month. There must have been some excessive character sharing on a regular basis.


-Brant
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Flowerr
post Oct 6 2008, 09:07 PM
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I kind of Agree that they should uphold the law and keep him from being Elder. Or Kru you could do the whole Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Whose to say 1 night he gets mad and boots people from the barb subpath? He is obviously willing to break rules as he broke a BIG ONE that is handled by GM'S ONLY!! I could understand if it was Profanity or harrassment cuz obviously that could go along with a Barbs roleplay as they have probably the deepest RP left in the kingdoms. But when you break a rule that ONLY A GM can handle then i think he should be left out of power and be happy with the guide position he has now.


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MeduLLA
post Oct 6 2008, 09:26 PM
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My thought on the matter is that if the CURRENT Elder, has found himself a suitable replacement, then his choice should stand. Even if the replacement has been banned for something so rediculous as CHARACTER SHARING. I would be willing to say that 85% of Nexus is guilty of this crime.

What I'm getting at, is yes, the GM should have the FINAL decision on subpath elders and primogens and the such, but if the GM is either undecided or alright with it, then fine. If the GM flat out says no. Then it's obvious that the elder/primo needs to find another replacement.

That and personally being a part of the Barbarian path, I am fine with either person being the elder. Winder obviously made a decision that he felt would continue to help and advance the path in a positive direction.

Even though I didn't get to do it in game, I have to thank Winder for the time he did spend as an elder and for what he has sacrificed his personal time and money to do for everyone that chooses to be a part of the path.


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PIEMINISTER
post Oct 6 2008, 09:36 PM
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85% of nexus character shares? It's more like 85% of nexus says quit pulling statistics out of your b-hole.
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Vortextk
post Oct 6 2008, 10:48 PM
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Not like a path leader really matters(could careless about the thread), but considering I haven't seen it here at all, what did Orion do for the ban?


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Hatiki
post Oct 6 2008, 11:26 PM
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What Beffy said is exactly how I feel about the situation. Although Orion could have been a great Elder for the Barbarians he has to deal with the consequences that come with it just like everyone else. No one should be allowed to have rules bent for them.

People need to lay off Gobiin. He hasn't been Elder for more then a week and people are already giving grief to him. How can anyone judge his leadership skills on running a path when he just got it?


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BeffyCabeza
post Oct 6 2008, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE(darkmaverick @ Oct 6 2008, 08:07 PM) [snapback]64169[/snapback]

Beffy, I think the opinions of the majority of a path's membership should be able to outweigh the opinion of an Elder.


Yes I agree the majority of a path's walkers should matter, however from what I've seen, it's not a majority. There's a small handful that are disgruntled. (I could be wrong, but I've been talking to a lot of people) Most of the uproar is coming from people -outside- the path that have been rallied.

It's the Barbarians, leave it to the Barbarians.


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Adam
post Oct 6 2008, 11:41 PM
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Like I posted earlier, the rules shouldn't be bent; they should be changed.


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PikuDamaru
post Oct 6 2008, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE(KaN @ Oct 6 2008, 09:31 PM) [snapback]64183[/snapback]

No, the rules should not be bent. Not for Orion, nor anyone else. Instead, the rules need to be CHANGED; they need to handle these rare situations in a case-by-case manner.

THANK YOU! Finally, someone thinking in the same direction I am. Advancement doesn't come from narrow-minded "old-school" thought patterns. Our [Content removed]ing species teach history but no one seems to [Content removed]ing learn it.


QUOTE(Flowerr @ Oct 6 2008, 10:07 PM) [snapback]64187[/snapback]

Whose to say 1 night he gets mad and boots people from the barb subpath? He is obviously willing to break rules as he broke a BIG ONE that is handled by GM'S ONLY!! I could understand if it was Profanity or harrassment cuz obviously that could go along with a Barbs roleplay as they have probably the deepest RP left in the kingdoms.

What...? How do you associate a fairy tail with:

QUOTE(MeduLLA @ Oct 6 2008, 10:26 PM) [snapback]64193[/snapback]

something so rediculous as CHARACTER SHARING.

You're saying since Orion was willing to type in the authentication credentials of another character, he now becomes the epitome of evil and is a loose cannon who might just disband the path on a whim? Get real. So far you've only been mentioning crimes which shouldn't be crimes at all. It actually goes along with the trend. This game gives punishments for what you say, who you login as, and slaps silly rules on top of all of it, and you're going to sit here and compare my friend to an insane schizophrenic who will do a 180 on the path he's been a GUIDE for the last couple of years and defend the unworthy justification of Nexus laws?

Find a screw driver to tighten that loose screw.

QUOTE(Vortextk @ Oct 6 2008, 11:48 PM) [snapback]64205[/snapback]

what did Orion do for the ban?

Refer to my MeduLLA quote.


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MeduLLA
post Oct 7 2008, 02:24 AM
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QUOTE
85% of nexus character shares? It's more like 85% of nexus says quit pulling statistics out of your b-hole.


I'm not saying 85% of Nexus current shares. I'm just saying that 85% of us are most likely guilty of at some point in our Nexus playing tenure's. Maybe we didn't hunt or help the advancement of the character, but I'm sure alot of people have "checked out a char". Especially with the rash of illegal sales of characters and what not.

Not that any of that above has anything to do with what Orion did.

As I stated once before, if the current Elder finds a suitable replacement in all aspects of the job, then that person should be fine. If there is a major problem with it, then that is something the GM needs to get involved with alone. No Archon involvement due to Archons possibly having alterior personal motives.


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SilentNights
post Oct 7 2008, 03:32 AM
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I fail to see how our elder is really anyone's business but our own. Just my thoughts.

SN
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