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> Remembering Nexon/old Archons.
Doctor
post May 25 2015, 02:18 PM
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I was talking to a friend today about Alilolelotte. Alil said that the reason this game has fallen on such hard times/the state of the game today is due to player's complaining about archons and the company. In that extreme maneuver of mental gymnastics I was wondering about how Nexon and the original Archon/GM staff (Archons->Grin->Eldridge) were. I played back then but I was eating crayons and asking my mom how much time I had left on the computer, so, I didn't really have the faculties to understand what was going on.

Was it better, worse? Any good stories about the beginnings of this game as it relates to the powers that be?


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Conro
post May 26 2015, 11:14 AM
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ROFL.

The reason the game fell on hard times is that they stopped giving a [Content removed] about player feed back and stopped asking some of their 'top' players about information to make the game more fun.

People wouldn't complain or be as vocal about how [Content removed]ty they are if they weren't so [Content removed]ty lol


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Brant
post May 26 2015, 12:12 PM
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Simply put, the pool of qualified players has long passed. Rather than having Subpaths, Clans, etc. passed to someone who is capable and next best person, we have now in many cases, 'the least worst option', or 'the only person who wanted to do it'.

At the same time though, Archons were never really like that, it was all based on how well you knew certain people and how significant you were to the Diviner path. I've never had a Diviner, so I wouldn't really know. I'll let those folks speak up.
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SilentS
post May 26 2015, 01:36 PM
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Alilolelotte is a fool anyways. One example is that she believes Tangun is fine as it is and does not need anything done to it. When she told me that, she lost all credibility in my eyes from that point on (this was before her promotion). As for everything else, not much to add that hasnt been said by Conro or Brant.


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Hijack
post May 26 2015, 02:16 PM
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I was banned on my first account Yuri 40-45 for saying "Blood Brother/Sister is a lame excuse for gay marriage" by Eldridge. And it really was. They should have just let people marry. Plus Blood brother/sister is [Content removed]ing retarded that it's not equal to obtain.
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linuxkiddy
post May 26 2015, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (SilentS @ May 26 2015, 02:36 PM) *
Alilolelotte is a fool anyways. One example is that she believes Tangun is fine as it is and does not need anything done to it. When she told me that, she lost all credibility in my eyes from that point on (this was before her promotion). As for everything else, not much to add that hasnt been said by Conro or Brant.


Oh god then yes there is big major problems with archons if They believe Tangun is fine, Its killing the game it basically dosn't let players interact with anyone unless they go to tangun...which isn't very often... plus if we host tangun events How do we give the ma prize when they cant hold more than 2k gold or whatever.
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Vini
post May 26 2015, 05:04 PM
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I've known Alilolelotte for years, since she was a new Pawn and always known her for a person who is very dedicated and caring. She has usually listened to community ideas and complaints, so I find very heard to believe that she actually would have said something like that. It is very unfair, SilentS, to call her a fool simply because she may have said something you disagree with. She in fact has contributed A LOT to the community, more than any us can imagine, which is why she achieved such an important position she has today.

However, I understand that many around still don't know how to deal correctly when hearing complaints. To all who think a Complaint is a bad thing I invite you to read the text "The Gift of Customer Complaints" written by Jaynelle F. Stichler and Lynn Schumacher. Such text will change your perception of complaints and will make you glad when you receive one. Here are a few quotes on why:

QUOTE (Jaynelle F. Stichler and Lynn Schumacher)
In How to Win Customers and Keep Them for Life, Michael LeBoeuf explains that a typical business hears from only 4% of its dissatisfied customers. This means that about 96% just quietly go away and 91% never return.


This means that the 4% who do care to stop and write a formal complaint to you is actually a blessing. This 4% of unsatisfied customers allow you to rethink your customer relationship management and improve your procedures.
A complaint shall NEVER be ignored. Perhaps what is written isn't accurate because customer/player may not understand the whole context, but still that's how the person feels and their complaint needs to be addressed or at least explained.

QUOTE (Jaynelle F. Stichler and Lynn Schumacher)
Customer service research has demonstrated that a typical dissatisfied customer will tell 8–10 people of the problem. Seven of the 10 dissatisfied customers who actually complain will give you their repeat business if you resolve the complaint in their favor, but the odds are that the dissatisfied customer won’t even tell you of their concern or complaint.


This means if you simply ignore complaints and disqualify them as not important, such person will influence 8-10 other potential customers in thinking bad against you. In a market where word of mouth is still the most powerful brand evangelization tool, having customers speak good on your behalf is the most effective and cheap way to promote your product. And look:

QUOTE (Jaynelle F. Stichler and Lynn Schumacher)
Research has indicated that, if a problem is resolved quickly after recognition, 95% of the customers will appreciate the action taken and will give you their business again. Not only will they give you their repeat business, but their perception of how you resolved the issue will affect what they tell others about your business. On the average, a satisfied customer will tell five people about the problem and how it was satisfactorily resolved.


Therefore, when you receive a complaint embrace it and use it as a way to improve yourself or your services. It's not easy to do, especially if you take it personal. But it's a very important thing to exercise.

In such sense, I invite any of you to send me complaints about my work, Nexus Atlas or anything I'm involved it. I'll be extremely happy to review it and hope I can fix the problem. Email vini@nexusatlas.com or send me a nmail.


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Doctor
post May 26 2015, 05:16 PM
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Alil is a really nice person who is good at helping people and fielding complaints/issues that don't require much thought to them. That's true. However, she as well as every other head archon/archon primarch are/have been woefully unequipped to handle the job of being a game designer, game master, and engineer. It's not their fault that they were put into a position that they have no place in being in, that's on KRU for deciding to be so lazy that they turn over the present and future of their game to people with no experience or idea of what that entails.

Alil and Mug were essentially qualified to be nannies but were given the responsibility of not only that, but being a maid, a chef, a home owner, a carpenter/plumber/electrician, and doing all the taxes as well. Their experience and abilities are not suitable for what their job is, and that really sucks that KRU has decided to continue with this model because it means that we now have a game where nothing is added, nothing is fixed, and nothing is critically looked into because the people who are able do to that do not have the capacity to do so.

To bring this back though I'm looking for specific examples or instances of how archons/gms/nexon was during the beginning and middling stages of this game. Any personal anecdotes or timelines would be awesome.


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Laren
post May 26 2015, 05:53 PM
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There have always been good Archons and bad Archons, and people have always complained endlessly about them. RabSha got as much crap as Alil, if not more, but the game did a lot better then. The real issue isn't the Archons, who have always been basically police with a little bit of influence over game direction, but with KRU. KRU has not cared or put any effort in since mug left, and that's 5 years ago now. Say what you will about mug's competence, but at least he put in a lot of time and energy. Stein does the bare minimum to make it seem like someone's still taking care of the game, doesn't listen to suggestions any more than mug did, and doesn't know or care about Nexus at all.

As for the topic at hand, though, the best Archon of all time was Shajara. When she was AP, she did everything she could to help move good ideas forward and empower players, whether it was providing special dyes and engraves for some players who wanted to do an RP event, or giving Librarian (who was just a player with an idea at first) his own board and powers. It helped that there were more players then and therefore more good ideas, and there was a lot more support from Nexon than KRU ever offered, but there haven't been many Archons as competent or as involved as Shajara.
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SilentS
post May 26 2015, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Vini @ May 26 2015, 04:04 PM) *
I've known Alilolelotte for years, since she was a new Pawn and always known her for a person who is very dedicated and caring. She has usually listened to community ideas and complaints, so I find very heard to believe that she actually would have said something like that. It is very unfair, SilentS, to call her a fool simply because she may have said something you disagree with.

You forget, I have been dealing with Archons for quite some time as well. And I am basing my judgement on all my dealings with her, not just that one "example" that I listed. Yes I do know full well that her hands are tied on some issues, but her attitude towards me when talking about things (and not just on SS, but my alts too) was rude, unprofessional, and quite arrogant. Is she that now? I have no clue, but because of my dealings, my impression of her is already set. So, it matters little how well you know her, that is only your dealings with her, which is not the same as how others may have had.


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Doctor
post May 26 2015, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (Laren @ May 26 2015, 03:53 PM) *
There have always been good Archons and bad Archons, and people have always complained endlessly about them. RabSha got as much crap as Alil, if not more, but the game did a lot better then. The real issue isn't the Archons, who have always been basically police with a little bit of influence over game direction, but with KRU. KRU has not cared or put any effort in since mug left, and that's 5 years ago now. Say what you will about mug's competence, but at least he put in a lot of time and energy. Stein does the bare minimum to make it seem like someone's still taking care of the game, doesn't listen to suggestions any more than mug did, and doesn't know or care about Nexus at all.

As for the topic at hand, though, the best Archon of all time was Shajara. When she was AP, she did everything she could to help move good ideas forward and empower players, whether it was providing special dyes and engraves for some players who wanted to do an RP event, or giving Librarian (who was just a player with an idea at first) his own board and powers. It helped that there were more players then and therefore more good ideas, and there was a lot more support from Nexon than KRU ever offered, but there haven't been many Archons as competent or as involved as Shajara.

To be honest I think AP has a lot more say in who can get what and what can be put in the game than is being said. There's a reason Diviner has the spells they have now and other subpaths do not.


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Laren
post May 26 2015, 11:25 PM
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APs may get some veto power on requests, but they can't actually add anything themselves. I'm not going to address Diviner spells again, I've done that plenty in the past.
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Doctor
post May 27 2015, 12:21 AM
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Ever since Mug has been gone (not that this was any better than Mug having the say) AP has had direct control of what does or does not get approved. This has of course led to year 10,000 of no paths or subpaths being balanced.


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Songa
post May 27 2015, 05:37 PM
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Fairly sure that Archons have always been in charge, at least in some small part, for of a lot of the game. Anyone remember that little roleplayer's club that was "created" when mug was around? Pretty sure it was said that it had always been around but at that time, it was the first time it was known to the public. I was personally a part of it and it was basically players creating events. All KRU did was say yes we can do that/no we can't; the people in the group did everything else. This has been the case for a very long time, it's just that the general public didn't know about it. It makes me believe that the game has never had a staff who did much of anything, they've always had players contributing. It's just that "back in the day" there were more players and more people with good, even great, ideas.

Anyway, on topic: I vaguely remember before Archons were Angels, who I believe were known to the community. It's all very grey but I remember something about Angels being phased out because one of them fell in love with something or who the [Content removed] knows. It was some weird thing and then after that there were Archons. I do remember being in the rogue hall once and an Angel came in to change their face and talked to me in length. In general, Angels seemed to me to be nicer and more interactive than Archons, who seem hard to reach.
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Laren
post May 27 2015, 07:17 PM
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Angels were tasked only with community outreach, specifically dealing with new players, and with jailing abusive peasants. They were removed because one Angel used his powers to read subpath boards. Archons existed before and concurrently with Angels.

And no, Archons or players never had that much power. There was a time when KRU or Nexon enacted more of the ideas players came up with, but KRU or Nexon has always had to do the actual enacting. No player or Archon has ever had the power to alter the server or client, or add or remove content, and the amount they can actually do without someone up above is extremely limited. Players have always contributed, and players still try to contribute, but KRU doesn't do any work, so no player work is implemented.
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Doctor
post May 28 2015, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE (Laren @ May 27 2015, 05:17 PM) *
Angels were tasked only with community outreach, specifically dealing with new players, and with jailing abusive peasants. They were removed because one Angel used his powers to read subpath boards. Archons existed before and concurrently with Angels.

And no, Archons or players never had that much power. There was a time when KRU or Nexon enacted more of the ideas players came up with, but KRU or Nexon has always had to do the actual enacting. No player or Archon has ever had the power to alter the server or client, or add or remove content, and the amount they can actually do without someone up above is extremely limited. Players have always contributed, and players still try to contribute, but KRU doesn't do any work, so no player work is implemented.

Archons have never been able to hard code anything into the game, however they have always had the ability to decide what does or doesn't go in the game, and who does or doesn't get what, which is essentially a much bigger deal. KRU has not decided what is going into the game, content wise, in a very very very long time. It's all been archon or player ideas/written/choices.


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Brant
post May 28 2015, 03:07 PM
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Sure, Archons can't code anything new or put something new into the game, but they have access to utilize anything that is already in the game.
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Laren
post May 28 2015, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ May 28 2015, 12:18 PM) *
Archons have never been able to hard code anything into the game, however they have always had the ability to decide what does or doesn't go in the game, and who does or doesn't get what, which is essentially a much bigger deal. KRU has not decided what is going into the game, content wise, in a very very very long time. It's all been archon or player ideas/written/choices.


This also isn't true. The decision on what will be added is entirely based on the work KRU is willing to do. Stein always makes the decision. The AP determines what requests and ideas to send to him (which is not everything he does) but not whether he will implement them. And KRU sets pretty firm guidelines on who can get what and when. The GM does so little now that relative to him it seems like the Archons do everything, but the Archons have always existed to assist the GM and have limited powers to do so. Tangun and Gogoon, two of mug's big projects, were mug's ideas. He got Archon and player help in filling out some of the content, but a lot of it was his. That was the norm. What we've had since is no one doing much of anything, but the Archons appearing by default to be in charge.
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Doctor
post May 29 2015, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Laren @ May 28 2015, 04:31 PM) *
This also isn't true. The decision on what will be added is entirely based on the work KRU is willing to do. Stein always makes the decision. The AP determines what requests and ideas to send to him (which is not everything he does) but not whether he will implement them. And KRU sets pretty firm guidelines on who can get what and when. The GM does so little now that relative to him it seems like the Archons do everything, but the Archons have always existed to assist the GM and have limited powers to do so. Tangun and Gogoon, two of mug's big projects, were mug's ideas. He got Archon and player help in filling out some of the content, but a lot of it was his. That was the norm. What we've had since is no one doing much of anything, but the Archons appearing by default to be in charge.

That's what I'm saying, you're just repeating what I said. Archons are responsible for all the ideas, all the potential content, and everything that gets sent to Stein. This means they are responsible for whatever goes in or out of this game because he is trusting them to know what should or shouldn't be in the game more than anyone else. This is of course a horrible idea because I can't remember an AP having an inkling of what to do to benefit the game.

Of course KRU/Stein have the final say because they have to actually do the work, that goes without saying, but they're not doing any work that isn't being passed to them by the AP outside of fixing egregious bugs.


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Laren
post May 30 2015, 12:31 AM
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I believe Oh San is all Stein, if we're taking their word that's actually being worked on, item shop updates are all KRU, and requests follow a set schedule with requirements given by KRU, Archons just do the paperwork and forwarding of those, they don't get approval or any say in who gets to request things when, etc. The most the AP will do is tell you in advance that a request is unlikely to be granted so you shouldn't bother submitting it. No one's doing much of anything these days, so Archons may be doing a larger proportion of the work, but Archons aren't doing any more in terms of the type of work than they've ever done.
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