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> Cunning And Rage Damage, Comparing Old With New
Adam
post Oct 6 2008, 09:09 AM
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I found an archived Community post of mine from a couple years ago, calculating and comparing the damage of Cunning and Rage. Now since then, I know Rage damage, the amount of vita/mana R6 leaves you with when it ends, and the protection on Cunning have all been changed, and maybe some other values have as well, so I was wondering what the comparison is like today.

Here's my old post:
QUOTE
Board : Community
Author : KaNaK
Subject : Re: SinJackal
Date : 4/16
While I agree with most of your points, I would just like to point out that IN GENERAL (taking all aspects into perspective), Cunning is greater than Rage.

I'll show you.

NPC Rogues to NPC Warriors (provided they are Ee/Sam)

Cunning effects
Cunning 1: 3,000 mana - 0 protection.
6x damage x 9.3x Weapon damage from Invisable = 55.8x damage, 83.7x damage at Ee, 111.6x damage at Sam
Cunning 2: 4,200 mana - 15% protection. BACKSTAB.
7x damage x 9.3x Weapon damage from Invisable = 65.1x damage, 97.65x damage at Ee, 130.2x damage at Sam
Cunning 3: 15,634 mana - 30% protection. FLANK.
9x damage x 9.3x Weapon damage from Invisable = 83.7x damage, 125.55x damage at Ee, 167.4x damage at Sam
Cunning 4: 46,658 mana - 55% protection. 4-WAY HIT.
10x damage x 9.3x Weapon damage from Invisable = 93.0x damage, 139.5x damage at Ee, 186.0x damage at Sam
Cunning 5: 117,667 mana - 85% protection.
12x damage x 9.3x Weapon damage from Invisable = 111.6x damage, 167.4x damage at Ee, 223.2x damage at Sam

Note: The total damage at each Cunning gets doubled because of Sam san ingress, while Warriors don't even have a Sam san ingress.

Rage effects
Rage 1: 2,000 mana - +0 AC - 20% vita taken.
8x damage, 40x at Ee and Sam
Rage 2: 7,200 mana - +0 AC - 20% vita taken.
14x damage, 70x at Ee and Sam
Rage 3: 18,050 mana - +5 AC - 20% vita taken.
20x damage, 100x at Ee and Sam
Rage 4: 33,800 mana - +15 AC - 40% vita taken.
26x damage, 130x at Ee and Sam
Rage 5: 72,200 mana - +30 AC - 60% vita taken.
36x damage, 180x at Ee and Sam
Rage 6: 145,800 mana - +50 AC - All but 1 vita/mana taken
81x damage, 405x at Ee and Sam

Therefore, we can conclude: At Ee San
C1 > R1 AND R2
C2 > R3
C3 < R4
C4 > R4
C5 < R5
C5 < R6

At Sam san
C1 > R1 AND R2 AND R3
C2 > R4
C4 > R5
C5 < R6

Now, keep in mind the protection the rogues get, and the additional AC Warriors get. The higher cunning a rogue casts, the safer they feel, whereas you won't see a warrior get owned so hard, getting 2-hit by vortex bosses. That and the percentage of vita subtraction when Rage ends are horrible. When our vita/mana go to 1 after R6 ends with spawns like Vortex, make SOME (not me ^^) warriors panic like a frightened new-born kitten. Also, take note of the extra mana a warrior needs to cast their spells compared to a rogue, and the fact that a CR gains mana SOLELY (except for the minor damage it adds on the Sam san attack "Siege") for casting Rage, whereas Cunnings need it for all their vita attacks.
Rogues also get to ambush, which makes hunting A LOT more efficient. This is a reason why PC Rogues > PC Warriors. That, and invisable. So I'm not even going to compare those two.


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darkmaverick
post Oct 6 2008, 10:55 AM
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You can't just add all the multipliers together. It doesn't work that way.

Ingress isn't like Invisible. It only multiplies the weapon damage.


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Adam
post Oct 6 2008, 11:15 AM
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What do you mean?
Correct me where I messed up. tongue.gif

I guess I was dumber back then than I am now. No surprise there. laugh.gif


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SilentS
post Oct 6 2008, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE
"The formula is (for average damage):

((Weapon Damage / 2) x Ingress + Path Bonus + Might / 8 + Damage * 2.5) x Fury x Invisibility x Polearm Multiplier x Flanking


Path bonus is 8.8125 for Rogues and Warriors.
Invisibility is 8 ((think it has been changed since))
Polearm Multipliers are PA:2, HPA:2.2, MPA:2.5 ((think it has been changed since))
Flanking is Front: 1, Side:1.5, Back:2

That is the last known formula for attack damage that has been posted ((that I am aware of)). As you can see, Invisible multiplies the the whole thing. While ingress is only a small part of the damage formula. So keeping that in mind, it changes your numbers a great deal.


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Adam
post Oct 9 2008, 02:18 AM
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Well, my intent wasn't to calculate the exact damage they would be doing, but to calculate the relative damage to show the difference between Cunning and Rage. That being said, the calculation would be more or less the same, I think. This is because the weapon (includes PA-multiplier) and the values for might, damage, and flanking would all be equal, and/or omitted, and the path bonus, which is equal, would remain or be omitted.

That being said, the equation would change from:
((Weapon Damage/2) x Ingress + Path Bonus + (Might/8) + (Damage*2.5)) x Fury x Invisibility x Polearm Multiplier x Flanking
To:
Ingress x Fury x Invisibility

Which is basically what I had in my old calculations.

One thing that would SLIGHTLY change it is if Warriors get an inherent damage bonus, but I really can't remember if they do.

... Right?


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mitochi
post Oct 15 2008, 12:25 AM
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HPA is x1.5 from front, x2 from sides, x2.5 from behind


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darkmaverick
post Oct 20 2008, 04:46 AM
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minor note: the directional modifier for attacking the sides doesn't appear to be working, at least not in PVP areas.


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mitochi
post Oct 20 2008, 05:28 PM
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That's strange, coz I was testing it at PVP


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Excaliber
post Oct 21 2008, 01:16 AM
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DM is correct. I too tried to testthe damage multipliers from the side and front and saw no obvious change in the numbers. Decent notes on damage, but also factor the weapon used. For huge weapons such as LM warrior sword or path swords, it is typically better to use those for most warriors ~2m+.

As for rogues...I quit offering advice for them a long time ago. I truly feel sorry for them.


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darkmaverick
post Oct 21 2008, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE(mitochi @ Oct 20 2008, 06:28 PM) [snapback]66100[/snapback]

That's strange, coz I was testing it at PVP


Polearms work very different than other weapons do. I was referring to regular weapons.


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I host The RPG Fanatic Youtube Show. Home of fanatical reviews and commentary about RPGs.
And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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