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> Proposal For New Berserk & Whirlwind
Hugen
post Jan 31 2007, 05:06 PM
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There is some discussion going on on these boards on how Warrior special attacks might be better implemented, or fixed, if you prefer.

This proposal will address the basic cycle of Whirlwind, Berserk, Berserk and the proposed solution will be one that incorporates Mana into the formulae.

The proposed New Whirlwind will:

Do 1.4x Vita + 0.96x Mana and Use 80% of Vita and 600 Mana.

in conjunction with this the proposed New Berserk will:

Do 0.75x Vita + 0.64x Mana and used 66.67% of Vita and 25% of Mana (must have 180 mana to cast).

That's it. What do you think?


Here's what I think.

I think it would give an "optimum mana value" for Warriors, which is handy for planning and balancing.

Example below:

Rogue Cycle:
LS = 0.5 V + 2.5 M
DA = 1.0 V + 1.0 M
DA = 1.0 V + 0.0 M
Total = 2.5 V + 3.5 M
So, clearly 1 point of Mana is worth more than 1 point of Vita.
However, Mana also costs more, so when should we buy each?

When Mana costs less than 3.5/2.5 (140%) as much as Vita, we should buy it.
With experience costs, this means about a 3:1 V:M ratio.

So, for example, if we have 500k Vita we will be paying 62 million for 100 more Vita.
62 x 1.4 = 86.8
So, when 100 Mana costs less than 86.8 million (42 mil for 50), it is a good deal.
That would be 159.95k Mana.

Hypothetical Warrior Cycle:
WW = 1.400 V + 0.960 M
Zrk = 0.750 V + 0.640 M
Zrk = 0.750 V + 0.480 M
Total = 2.900 V + 2.080 M
So, clearly 1 point of Vita is worth more than 1 point of Mana.
But, when should we buy each?

When Mana costs less than 2.08/2.9 (71.72%) as much as Vita, we should buy it.
With experience costs, this means about a 6:1 V:M ratio.

So, for example, if we have 640k Vita we will be paying 76 million for 100 more Vita.
76 x 0.7172 = 54.5
So, when 100 Mana costs less than 54.5 million per 100 it is a good deal.


How do the support-to-damage requirements work out?

With 740 bil spent experience we can have:

a 480k / 480k Poet,
a 883k / 300k Rogue, or
a 1,040k / 150k Warrior.

A Rogue cycle in the current system would look something like this:
A 883k/300k Rogue and a 480k/480k Poet
CODE

   Poet Invokes (Poet at 480k mana)
   Rogue Lethal Strikes for 1191.5k damage
12 Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Rogue (Poet at 432k mana)
5  Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Self (Poet at 412k mana)
   Rogue Desperate Attacks for 1182k damage
12 Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Rogue (Poet at 364k mana)
   Rogue Desperate Attacks for 883k damage
12 Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Rogue (Poet at 316k mana)
1  Poet Inspires Rogue 316k mana
42 Heals / Inspires
   Damage Done: 3256.5k
   Dmg / RHI Action: 77,536


and a Warrior cycle in the proposed system would look something like this:

A 1040k/150k Warrior and a 480k/480k Poet
CODE

   Warrior Whirlwinds for 1537k damage
3  Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Warrior (Poet at 97.3k mana)
1  Poet Inspires Warrior 97.3k mana
   Poet Invokes (Poet at 480k mana)
1  Poet Restores Warrior for 832k (Poet at 320k mana)
1  Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Warrior (Poet at 316k mana)
5  Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Self (Poet at 296k mana)
   Warrior Berserks for 876k damage
18 Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Warrior (Poet at 224k mana)
   Warrior Berserks for 834k damage
1  Poet Restores Warrior for 336k (Poet at 149.3k mana)
10 Poet Heals (40k for 4k) Warrior (Poet at 109.3k mana)
40 Restores / Heals / Inspires
   Damage Done: 3247k
   Dmg / RHI Action: 81,175



Fairly balanced.

Plus, it opens up possibilities for Warriors in Carnages.

While a 3:1 ratio might be optimal for Rogues eventually, they can "pack" into the lower carnages with 2:1 ratios and see a nice return.

This would also allow Warriors to do the same.

Let's look at a comparison of "Maxed" Characters for the 50:25 Carnage:

Rogue:
LS = 87.5
DA = 75
DA = 50
LS+DA = 137.5

Warrior (NOW):
WW = 78.75
Zrk = 37.5
Zrk = 37.5
WW+Zrk = 82.5

Warrior (Proposed):
WW = 94
Zrk = 53.5
Zrk = 49.5
WW+Zrk = 117.5

Nice. The Warrior's Whirlwind (leaving him at 20% health) actually does MORE damage than the Rogue's LS.

The Warrior can even "double" for a significant damage boost (though it won't match the Rogue's double).


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Posts in this topic
- Hugen   Proposal For New Berserk & Whirlwind   Jan 31 2007, 05:06 PM
- - Tynan   First of all, I do love the idea behind this chang...   Jan 31 2007, 11:47 PM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Tynan @ Jan 31 2007, 11:47 PM) 2496...   Feb 1 2007, 09:50 AM
- - Tynan   All right, Hugen, I appreciate the changes you mad...   Feb 1 2007, 02:15 PM
- - Dannicus   kru needs to do this I love what I am seeing!   Feb 1 2007, 09:01 PM
- - Lusk   I'm sorry I dont want my Berserk to take 100k ...   Feb 4 2007, 02:51 PM
|- - Tynan   QUOTE(Lusk @ Feb 4 2007, 11:51 AM) 25260 ...   Feb 4 2007, 07:43 PM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Tynan @ Feb 4 2007, 07:43 PM) 25280...   Feb 4 2007, 08:15 PM
- - Tynan   QUOTEDoing 1x Mana in damage and not having a drai...   Feb 4 2007, 08:23 PM
- - SilentS   Keep in mind, the AVERAGE mana of a Samsan is 250-...   Feb 4 2007, 10:39 PM
- - Tynan   I would like someone to show me with numbers why t...   Feb 5 2007, 12:18 AM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Tynan @ Feb 5 2007, 12:18 AM) 25300...   Feb 5 2007, 10:03 AM
- - Hugen   Alright, I did look at your formula, and from the ...   Feb 5 2007, 12:06 PM
- - Tynan   I made a new spreadsheet for special attacks that ...   Feb 5 2007, 02:14 PM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Tynan @ Feb 5 2007, 02:14 PM) 25341...   Feb 5 2007, 05:21 PM
- - Tynan   QUOTEAll it takes to change a 900k/300k 3:1 Ratio ...   Feb 5 2007, 05:49 PM
|- - Hugen   I did a Rogue attack worksheet. http://media3.fi...   Feb 5 2007, 07:06 PM
- - Tynan   Well, I had a look, and I am shocked at the damage...   Feb 5 2007, 07:39 PM
- - Tynan   I just want to put forth one last set of formulae,...   Feb 6 2007, 06:04 PM
- - Amaroq   After reading the first few posts, then skimming a...   Feb 6 2007, 06:44 PM
|- - Tynan   QUOTEAlso, for the experience spent, whirlwind is ...   Feb 6 2007, 08:28 PM
- - Hugen   I did a "Fighter" spreadsheet like the R...   Feb 6 2007, 07:25 PM
- - Tynan   QUOTEYour last proposal (C in the workbook) is wel...   Feb 6 2007, 09:12 PM
- - Hugen   The more I think about it, the more Rogues are ...   Feb 7 2007, 09:35 AM
|- - Tynan   QUOTE(Hugen @ Feb 7 2007, 06:35 AM) 25631...   Feb 7 2007, 11:49 AM
- - Tynan   I have been toying with more formulae. I have been...   Feb 7 2007, 10:04 PM
- - Hugen   Alright, I did another workbook. http://media3.fi...   Feb 9 2007, 02:08 PM
- - Tynan   I apologize for not commenting earlier. I download...   Feb 12 2007, 01:26 PM
- - Siverno   Honestly... the biggest problem with Berserk versu...   Feb 12 2007, 10:30 PM
|- - lepetitchou   QUOTE(Siverno @ Feb 12 2007, 11:30 PM) 26...   Feb 14 2007, 12:59 PM
- - Siverno   I completely forgot about those boots. The boots ...   Feb 14 2007, 09:43 PM
- - Tynan   QUOTEBut Im sure I'm forgetting something impo...   Feb 14 2007, 10:15 PM
- - Siverno   Well my post had been regarding a pre-99 carnage w...   Feb 17 2007, 01:51 AM
- - Mirado   Just to get a rogue's opinion in here... It...   Mar 12 2007, 10:32 AM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Mirado @ Mar 12 2007, 11:32 AM) 288...   Mar 12 2007, 12:23 PM
- - Mirado   He's actually around 400/300 if I ... sec, ch...   Mar 13 2007, 08:54 AM
- - Dannicus   Tynan, have you sent KRU links to these discussion...   Mar 21 2007, 07:08 PM
- - SinJackal   Seems like a lot of work and programming to add ba...   Mar 22 2007, 07:22 PM
- - Dannicus   SinJackal, I completely and utterly fail to see yo...   Mar 28 2007, 06:58 PM
|- - Tynan   QUOTE(Dannicus @ Mar 28 2007, 04:58 PM) 3...   Mar 30 2007, 12:05 AM
|- - Hugen   QUOTE(Dannicus @ Mar 28 2007, 07:58 PM) 3...   Mar 30 2007, 10:04 AM
- - Dannicus   I'd imagine that a slightly weaker siege for g...   Mar 30 2007, 04:18 PM


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