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> NexusTK Needs a New Server
halombobtk
post Sep 14 2016, 09:46 AM
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It's so easy to forget how homogeneous the player base is for a game like NexusTK. If everyone who's posted on this thread were in a room together irl, we would all instantly get along. Try to remember that when you feel compelled to make fun of someone on a forum for a tiny, 18 y/o game.
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darkmaverick
post Sep 14 2016, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (Krmit @ Sep 13 2016, 01:05 PM) *
So we have here basically, an entire thread of 2 people picking apart each other's novels, sentence by sentence.

What an amazing read. Psych.


Novels have a requirement of at least 60,000 words.

Of course, if you only read children's picture books from authors like Dr. Seuss which have around 200-300 words in them, I can see how you might be confused.



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Gerdi
post Sep 14 2016, 11:50 AM
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There's a reason no other game (that I can think of at least) has time-based trials -- because they understand how stupid and limiting it is for their player base. Currently, with the caves and items at your disposal, it's possible to obtain Sam stats in a month at a reasonable pace. There are some players who are able to grind it out in a couple of weeks. So what's the point of making players wait for a mark that is largely disappointing.

I don't need someone to tell me how I should spend time on a game that I pay a monthly subscription for. There are certainly ways Kru could ENCOURAGE doing that by effectively incentivizing those aspects of the game. However, some people aren't drawn to RP, they'd rather hunt or PK.

Managing how people spend their time on Nexus is just one of the reasons why their subscriptions are low.

I'm fine with a stats cap, in fact -- I think it's necessary. But that's not the same thing.

Additionally, it's limiting for people who have played the game for years, who know everything that the game has to offer, but want to create a new character. Why should I have to wait over a year to get Sam San on an alt character as an experienced player? It makes absolutely no sense.

Hunting has continually produced more and more experience as Nexus has aged, but the trials never evolved with it. It's far past time to get rid of these archaic time-gates
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halombobtk
post Sep 14 2016, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (Gerdi @ Sep 14 2016, 12:50 PM) *
There's a reason no other game (that I can think of at least) has time-based trials -- because they understand how stupid and limiting it is for their player base. Currently, with the caves and items at your disposal, it's possible to obtain Sam stats in a month at a reasonable pace. There are some players who are able to grind it out in a couple of weeks. So what's the point of making players wait for a mark that is largely disappointing.

This can be solved in two ways:
1. Get rid of time-based trials (your suggestion)
2. Make Sam San take significantly longer to reach by hunting, where time gate is negligible/nonexistent for most

I feel option two is better because it addresses a tremendously big problem - pacing. NexusTK used to have incredibly good pacing, which is possibly the most important aspect of an MMO. Speeding people through the most compelling part of the game's design (hitting 99) so that it is no longer interesting or significant is easily one of the top three hindrances for retention. I don't think anyone here understands how big a part the dopamine boost at 99 played in all of you getting hooked on NexusTK.
QUOTE
I don't need someone to tell me how I should spend time on a game that I pay a monthly subscription for.

This is so, so flawed. You are literally describing game design. Plus, you're being a little dramatic about Sam San. It's not like you can't continue to progress without it.
QUOTE
I'm fine with a stats cap, in fact -- I think it's necessary. But that's not the same thing.

LOL WAT. You're not okay with them "telling you how to spend your time" by making you wait for a mark, but you're totally fine with them telling you that you can't progress anymore? It's absolutely the same thing. They're both game design decisions preventing you from progressing. They're telling you that you can't spend your time getting stats anymore once you hit a ceiling that eventually gets raised after--wait for it--time has passed! You're perceiving them as different because they have opposite effects on "catch-up," but I'm not entirely sure that was the intent of your argument. It's certainly an issue that deserves being debated (also happens to be one with multiple solutions and polar opposite schools of thought).
QUOTE
It's far past time to get rid of these archaic time-gates

You're not wrong, but as I mentioned above, I don't feel this really addresses the bigger problem facing the game. Getting Sam San used to feel significant. A small minority (of mostly jailed scumbags) complained about the time-gated sage requirement, but the pacing was pretty solid for the vast majority of players. You're also forgetting how easy it is to make alts ahead of time and build up their sage while you progress with your main. Technically, if getting Sage5 took one year, but getting Sam stats took three months, you could get a Sam mark every three months, on average.

Thanks for the honest reply btw Gerdi
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Doctor
post Sep 14 2016, 09:47 PM
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LOL.


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Interstate
post Sep 14 2016, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Sep 14 2016, 10:46 AM) *
It's so easy to forget how homogeneous the player base is for a game like NexusTK. If everyone who's posted on this thread were in a room together irl, we would all instantly get along. Try to remember that when you feel compelled to make fun of someone on a forum for a tiny, 18 y/o game.


I like this


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darkmaverick
post Sep 15 2016, 01:57 AM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Sep 14 2016, 09:01 PM) *
This can be solved in two ways:
1. Get rid of time-based trials (your suggestion)
2. Make Sam San take significantly longer to reach by hunting, where time gate is negligible/nonexistent for most

I feel option two is better because it addresses a tremendously big problem - pacing. NexusTK used to have incredibly good pacing, which is possibly the most important aspect of an MMO. Speeding people through the most compelling part of the game's design (hitting 99) so that it is no longer interesting or significant is easily one of the top three hindrances for retention. I don't think anyone here understands how big a part the dopamine boost at 99 played in all of you getting hooked on NexusTK.


I'm not really convinced that spending years of time to obtain Sam San is good pacing. Even with a new server, using that old design will just create the same problems which NexusTK had. There will be a new CalmWind who obtains super high stats (ex. 1M+ Vita) while the vast majority of the server is still trying to hit Il san.

I still remember the train of 4-5 Poets which CalmWind would need to have to heal him in Rat3 back in the early days because even if the Poets had high stats, the low healing power of Water of Life in relation to his high Vita made him a [Content removed] to heal.

As I said in earlier posts I think you are looking at the past with rose colored glasses. There were serious design problems with NexusTK in the old days. There still are, but they are different than what used to exist.

You should also remember that there used to be other localized versions of Baram. There was a French one and a Indonesian one. There was a Japanese one. There was even a Canadian one for a very short time. They all shut down because of lack of interest; the default Baram gameplay just isn't competitive in the market. It wasn't 10 years ago, and it sure as hell isn't now.

QUOTE
This is so, so flawed. You are literally describing game design. Plus, you're being a little dramatic about Sam San. It's not like you can't continue to progress without it.


It comes across to the player as punishing them for excelling at the game when they meet the requirements for starting a new quest but cannot access it due to a time gate requiring them to be subscribed to the game for a specific amount of time. This is doubly so when completing the quest gives them enhanced power and consequently enhances the amount of experience they can earn, thereby increasing the rate of stat gain.

Quest completion requirements are nearly always skill based. Time gating for longer than a 24 hour period is extremely uncommon. This Sage barrier on Sam San is like if World of Warcraft allowed you to get to level 59 but said you need to have an active subscription for 6 months until you can hit level 60.

QUOTE
You're not wrong, but as I mentioned above, I don't feel this really addresses the bigger problem facing the game. Getting Sam San used to feel significant. A small minority (of mostly jailed scumbags) complained about the time-gated sage requirement, but the pacing was pretty solid for the vast majority of players.


First of all, the vast majority of players are jailed for either using mild profanity, or insulting a player without actually using any profanity but the Judge deems it "close enough". That hardly qualifies them as being "scumbags".

Second of all, the pacing was solid for the majority of players because they only played the game casually. Without gameplay that appeals to the hardcore gamers who invest substantial daily hours into the game you don't have much of a community. You end up with what NexusTK is right now; a game where people primarily leave their characters logged in AFK because they have some ridiculous spell that has anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hour aethers that won't countdown unless they are logged in.

QUOTE
You're also forgetting how easy it is to make alts ahead of time and build up their sage while you progress with your main. Technically, if getting Sage5 took one year, but getting Sam stats took three months, you could get a Sam mark every three months, on average.


It's not that "easy" considering you have to invest a lot of money while also managing to not get jailed for some petty reason.


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halombobtk
post Sep 15 2016, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Sep 15 2016, 01:57 AM) *
I'm not really convinced that spending years of time to obtain Sam San

At no point in NexusTK's history did it ever take a non-casual years to obtain Sam San. Hasn't the time-gate always been 360 days (closer to 400 if you consider the grind from 1-90)?
QUOTE
There will be a new CalmWind who obtains super high stats (ex. 1M+ Vita) while the vast majority of the server is still trying to hit Il san.

You just described one of NexusTK's few differentiating strengths.
QUOTE
I still remember the train of 4-5 Poets which CalmWind would need to have to heal him in Rat3 back in the early days because even if the Poets had high stats, the low healing power of Water of Life in relation to his high Vita made him a [Content removed] to heal.

Rat3 is close to Il Stats. Why are we talking about WoL? Why would a new server just casually omit Il San?
QUOTE
As I said in earlier posts I think you are looking at the past with rose colored glasses. There were serious design problems with NexusTK in the old days. There still are, but they are different than what used to exist.

And I feel like you keep bringing up flaws from a past that aren't even relevant to the discussion. You've mentioned the no-aether days and the pre-Il days now, but I've said multiple times that I'm referring to creating a new server that mimics NexusTK at its peak-user years in '03-'06. I'm thinking the right way to do this would be to start a fresh server with only Sam available since Sa trials were botched by bad designers.
QUOTE
You should also remember that there used to be other localized versions of Baram. There was a French one and a Indonesian one. There was a Japanese one. There was even a Canadian one for a very short time. They all shut down because of lack of interest; the default Baram gameplay just isn't competitive in the market. It wasn't 10 years ago, and it sure as hell isn't now.

This so falsely assumes that there is only one reason a business can fail. C'mon, man. You're an entrepreneur!
QUOTE
It comes across to the player as punishing them for excelling at the game when they meet the requirements for starting a new quest but cannot access it due to a time gate requiring them to be subscribed to the game for a specific amount of time. This is doubly so when completing the quest gives them enhanced power and consequently enhances the amount of experience they can earn, thereby increasing the rate of stat gain.

Quest completion requirements are nearly always skill based. Time gating for longer than a 24 hour period is extremely uncommon. This Sage barrier on Sam San is like if World of Warcraft allowed you to get to level 59 but said you need to have an active subscription for 6 months until you can hit level 60.

How you guys fail to realize that WoW literally does this with level caps is beyond me. Level caps essentially = time gating. Regardless, this is all misdirection, in that you're trying to dance around the one, glaring truth about Sam San when it was released: there was negligible/nonexistent time gating for the vast majority of players. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it took about one year to get Sage5, and about one year for most to hunt to Sam and finish Ee Culture. If someone hunted way faster than that, they could always play another hero or simply hunt as an Ee San until their few months of waiting were up (conservatively, I'd say you miss out on 25% exp, boo hoo). Almost 100% of the people who complained had been jailed. As far as the subscription $ ask, $120/year for the >1k hours many would invest in getting Sam? Literally pennies (<12 cents an hour). Consider inflation and higher disposable income due to an older player base, and this minor subscription4progress model is nothing compared to the pay2win crap that exists in the current gaming marketplace.

Again, please stop talking about time gating since that's not what Sam was about on its release. It was always much, much more about jailing, which you address here:
QUOTE
First of all, the vast majority of players are jailed for either using mild profanity, or insulting a player without actually using any profanity but the Judge deems it "close enough". That hardly qualifies them as being "scumbags".

Note the bold part. I can't believe I have to say this, but you've identified yet another differentiating perk of NexusTK while trying to pass it off as a negative. Players having their progress delayed due to being scummy to other players? SIGN ME UP. A clean MMO in a vast ocean of filth? SIGN. ME. UP. If you don't like it, you can literally play any other game. I can't stress this enough, hence the bold/italics/underline. This is seriously one of NexusTK's most incredible strengths, and you're casually passing it off as a weakness. I'm as vulgar and godless as they come, but now that I'm in a traditional office setting, I realize how big the market is for this sort of thing. My coworker literally said that he saw Captain America CW last week and liked it because of how "clean" it was. *shudder*
QUOTE
Second of all, the pacing was solid for the majority of players because they only played the game casually. Without gameplay that appeals to the hardcore gamers who invest substantial daily hours into the game you don't have much of a community.

Well, first off, I'm guessing the majority of the NexusTK player base now consists of 9-5ers, but let's put that aside for a second. The attraction of being CalmWind with a train of poets is all you need to draw hardcore gamers. Hardcore gamers will always find ways to enjoy the game, even with the Sam time gating. Btw, your argument is hanging on by a thread since it's literally the only time gated trial, and a negligible one at that. With the old pacing, let's pretend a truly hardcore gamer can get a fresh character to Sam stats + Ee Culture in 3 months (not sure if possible, but let's pretend). Four account slots = 3 other characters to work on, which = 4 Sam sans in one year = 1 Sam every 3 months = no time gate. You're also forgetting that someone that hardcore is going to be sinking a ton of time into Carny/BL/Lix/FH + Comm. Events + boss hunting + ambers/crafting.
QUOTE
It's not that "easy" considering you have to invest a lot of money while also managing to not get jailed for some petty reason.

I'm trying to get some kind of gauge on how delusional you are about NexusTK's justice system. What % of total jailings do you feel weren't justified based on the in-game law's definition of cursing/harassment? I'll share my % after I hear yours.

Forcing people to be decent to other players for a year in order to get Sam just feels so right to me. It's not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, but enough to change the culture of a game. I've been playing Dota2 for 4 years for example, and I've been very not-decent to people for the vast majority of that time. On NexusTK? I was a saint, and it made me a happier person as a result. Positivity spreads, just like toxicity. Having said that, it's easy to argue that a zero-tolerance policy isn't optimal. I would lobby for a looser definition of harassment (everyone knows a toxic player when they see one), but extend it to a 3 strikes policy. It would still have culture-changing impact, but would give more leeway for generally non-toxic players to wake up on the wrong side of the bed occasionally. You could even loosen it to 3 strikes within x number of months.
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darkmaverick
post Sep 15 2016, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (halombobtk @ Sep 15 2016, 08:52 AM) *
At no point in NexusTK's history did it ever take a non-casual years to obtain Sam San. Hasn't the time-gate always been 360 days (closer to 400 if you consider the grind from 1-90)?


It's years if you get reset because you got jailed.

QUOTE
You just described one of NexusTK's few differentiating strengths.

Rat3 is close to Il Stats. Why are we talking about WoL? Why would a new server just casually omit Il San?


Rat3 was the highest level cave that CalmWind could reliably find poets for. Again, his stats were way higher than the majority of the server.

If you make a new server and roll back any of the new game content, chances are high history will just repeat itself. All the old problems will be back. I'm pointing out what a few of them are.

QUOTE
And I feel like you keep bringing up flaws from a past that aren't even relevant to the discussion. You've mentioned the no-aether days and the pre-Il days now, but I've said multiple times that I'm referring to creating a new server that mimics NexusTK at its peak-user years in '03-'06. I'm thinking the right way to do this would be to start a fresh server with only Sam available since Sa trials were botched by bad designers.


It sounds like you just want to roll the game back to the days when you first played the game. I really don't think that was the best possible version of NexusTK.

QUOTE
This so falsely assumes that there is only one reason a business can fail. C'mon, man. You're an entrepreneur!


There is only one localization of Baram still running and it's NexusTK, whose peak user base is a little over 300 people.

Most companies would shut an MMORPG of this userbase down because they realize if they devoted the same resources to a different game with more market appeal they would make more money.

QUOTE
How you guys fail to realize that WoW literally does this with level caps is beyond me. Level caps essentially = time gating.


It's not time gating..... You can't time-gate content in expansions which does not yet exist.

In NexusTK other people have access to the Sam san+ features and you don't until you meet the requirements. So it's different.

QUOTE
Regardless, this is all misdirection, in that you're trying to dance around the one, glaring truth about Sam San when it was released: there was negligible/nonexistent time gating for the vast majority of players. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it took about one year to get Sage5, and about one year for most to hunt to Sam and finish Ee Culture. If someone hunted way faster than that, they could always play another hero or simply hunt as an Ee San until their few months of waiting were up (conservatively, I'd say you miss out on 25% exp, boo hoo).


Actually because many people didn't have a need to Sage all the time they didn't all have the max grade of Sage.

QUOTE
Almost 100% of the people who complained had been jailed. As far as the subscription $ ask, $120/year for the >1k hours many would invest in getting Sam? Literally pennies (<12 cents an hour). Consider inflation and higher disposable income due to an older player base, and this minor subscription4progress model is nothing compared to the pay2win crap that exists in the current gaming marketplace.


So people who get into a spat with another player should be rendered less important even if they contribute the same (or greater) financial value to the operation of the game? Is that your argument?

You are looking at your proposal from the perspective of "This is the version of the game I personally want to play" rather than "This is the version of the game which is best for all players to enjoy".

QUOTE
Again, please stop talking about time gating since that's not what Sam was about on its release. It was always much, much more about jailing, which you address here:


It was always a time gate, and it was a time gate designed to punish a certain group of players.

QUOTE
Note the bold part. I can't believe I have to say this, but you've identified yet another differentiating perk of NexusTK while trying to pass it off as a negative. Players having their progress delayed due to being scummy to other players? SIGN ME UP. A clean MMO in a vast ocean of filth? SIGN. ME. UP. If you don't like it, you can literally play any other game.


Playing a different game is precisely what the vast majority of the market is doing because you represent a very small minority who thinks other players in a videogame should be held back just because they called someone a [Content removed] or a tool, or made a joke about clubbing baby seals. Or got accused of being a bot so that an Archon could justify jailing someone they had a heated argument with on their mortal.

QUOTE
I can't stress this enough, hence the bold/italics/underline. This is seriously one of NexusTK's most incredible strengths, and you're casually passing it off as a weakness. I'm as vulgar and godless as they come, but now that I'm in a traditional office setting, I realize how big the market is for this sort of thing. My coworker literally said that he saw Captain America CW last week and liked it because of how "clean" it was. *shudder*


You are taking one person's opinion about why Captain America: Civil War was a success as that it was "clean"? I very much doubt the word "clean" would rank at the top of a word cloud that analyzes all the top reviews for that movie.

QUOTE
Well, first off, I'm guessing the majority of the NexusTK player base now consists of 9-5ers, but let's put that aside for a second. The attraction of being CalmWind with a train of poets is all you need to draw hardcore gamers.


Having isn't always so pleasing a thing as wanting. CW was very frustrated that he couldn't just have one Poet heal him and then maximize the experience gain.


QUOTE
Hardcore gamers will always find ways to enjoy the game, even with the Sam time gating.


The majority of hardcore NexusTK players left the dang game, including myself, because our frustration with all these poor design choices led us to quit. That is literally what happened. It's not subjective. It's the absolute truth.

QUOTE
Btw, your argument is hanging on by a thread since it's literally the only time gated trial, and a negligible one at that. With the old pacing, let's pretend a truly hardcore gamer can get a fresh character to Sam stats + Ee Culture in 3 months (not sure if possible, but let's pretend). Four account slots = 3 other characters to work on, which = 4 Sam sans in one year = 1 Sam every 3 months = no time gate. You're also forgetting that someone that hardcore is going to be sinking a ton of time into Carny/BL/Lix/FH + Comm. Events + boss hunting + ambers/crafting.


You are focused on whether someone CAN do it, and not on whether they SHOULD HAVE to do it.

It's possible for someone to jump through hoops. That isn't the question; the question is if the hoops are fairly designed. The majority of people do not think that they are and that is the point here.

QUOTE
I'm trying to get some kind of gauge on how delusional you are about NexusTK's justice system. What % of total jailings do you feel weren't justified based on the in-game law's definition of cursing/harassment? I'll share my % after I hear yours.


As most of the jailings are due to profanity then I say the majority of them are not justified. I don't believe having a heated argument with another player should justify getting kicked out of your guild, losing spells, losing access to cities and having progress on Sam san reset.

That none of the more popular MMORPGs have a feature like the justice system demonstrates it is not necessary for a good game.

QUOTE
Forcing people to be decent to other players for a year in order to get Sam just feels so right to me. It's not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, but enough to change the culture of a game.


Do you really believe NexusTK is less toxic than other games? Perhaps when half the people online are AFK you could think this, but what has really happened is people have become so concerned with getting reported by a random passerby overhearing a public conversation that they have decided to primarily use group whispers or out of game chat like Ventrillo and Skype. That's not really encouraging and makes it more difficult for a new player to get involved in the community of older players.

QUOTE
I've been playing Dota2 for 4 years for example, and I've been very not-decent to people for the vast majority of that time.


You know, it really sounds like you are overly concerned with an environment where you hear no disparaging comments. The reality of competitive play is that other people have opinions as well, and some of these opinions you may disagree with. But you need to put on your big boy pants and thicken your skin because real life doesn't have some [Content removed] named Terragg who can summon the people you don't like to court and get them kicked out of their job and locked in jail because that person said they don't like you.

You might indeed be paying a fee to access the game, but so are they. Even the jerkiest customer still deserves to access the service they are paying for.


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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Doctor
post Sep 15 2016, 09:47 PM
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literally right now


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halombobtk
post Sep 15 2016, 10:11 PM
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What does that make you, Doc? One of the inanimate objects in the background contributing zero to the effort of making NexusTK playable again? Why are you here? What's the point of being in the peanut gallery on a dying forum about a dying game? Participate in the discussion about a new server or find a different thread imo. I'd also lay off the haterade. Negativity is unappealing, and you're generally a pretty funny guy from reading the past five years of posts.
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Doctor
post Sep 15 2016, 10:16 PM
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Cause we've had this discussion about 20 times already so I'd rather post pictures instead of say the same thing again.


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halombobtk
post Sep 15 2016, 11:39 PM
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Holy crap you gave me a lot to respond to. Thanks again for the post. Probably going to have to summarize a lot since I don't know if this amount of nitpicking each other's posts is sustainable laugh.gif

I'm not going to expand on my semantic argument re: time gating vs level caps, since we both know the similarities and differences between the two. It mostly comes down to personal preference. I find level caps to be boring and unnecessary. Having a CalmWind in a game is super cool to me, even though I know I'll never have the time to devote to actually being CalmWind. Installing one, single, solitary, "soft" (you can still progress without the mark) time gate in an effort to reduce toxicity seems so reasonable to me, but I also recognize that it might be more attractive to Wony to offer something new. I brought up the story about my coworker to explain how eye-opening it's been to be surrounded by Jesus freaks and 40-year-olds with three kids after spending most of the past decade surrounded by alcoholic, drug-abusing (though lovable, intelligent, hard-working) atheists. There really is a market for a clean MMO. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you're so vehemently against the justice system, and probably don't spend much time around super conservative people. Most of your bias against the justice system (and the Sam trial by extension) stems from the flawed notion that the system was rigged. We all started on a blank slate when discovering NexusTK. Only your actions toward other players/GMs could lead to you getting jailed. I was nice to people. You weren't. You got jailed. I didn't. It really is that simple. C'est la vie, etc.

At the end of the day, I personally don't really care much if there's a justice system or not. There are obviously arguments to be made for both sides, as you've brought up some great points. I thought it was a cool feature since I loved seeing people get jailed, knowing that I was far too intelligent, socially competent, and emotionally stable to let it happen to me. It was part of what made me "good" at NexusTK, so I viewed it as a competitive advantage. Consider me anti-justice system if it helps get a new server up and running. My only fear is that it will just end up being like (e)TK, which was incredibly toxic and juvenile. Its culture was seriously terrible, but maybe the harsh reality is that most people who play MMOs are just kinda [Content removed]ty in general. They skew unhealthy/unemployed/poor/depressed for sure, which is why any effort to encourage their in-game interactions to be positive always made sense to me.

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Sep 15 2016, 12:53 PM) *
If you make a new server and roll back any of the new game content, chances are high history will just repeat itself. All the old problems will be back. I'm pointing out what a few of them are.

History won't repeat itself if mug doesn't come back. I still don't think you've pointed out a problem that existed in the post-Il, pre-Vortex era, but I'm inviting you to correct me.
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It sounds like you just want to roll the game back to the days when you first played the game. I really don't think that was the best possible version of NexusTK.

It was certainly the most successful time in the game's history, no? I don't think there's any denying that. In your opinion, when was the game at its best? Remember to be realistic and choose a moment in time that already occurred. I'm guessing the code largely needs to be there already if a new server is ever actually going to happen.
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You are looking at your proposal from the perspective of "This is the version of the game I personally want to play" rather than "This is the version of the game which is best for all players to enjoy".

Partially, but I've also been thinking about its competitive advantages and position in the gaming market, as evidenced by all these marathon posts filled with business jargon. NexusTK has carved out a clear niche in the hearts/minds of a core group of players who just can't seem to get away after all these years, even while being unregged for the better part of a decade. It's only logical to try to tap into what made the game attractive back when people like you used to play. It's a completely different game now, which is part of why no one wants to play it. Mug and crew ran it into the ground, plus a neglected MMO with unlimited stat design is just never going to age well anyway after 15+ years. Endless stats would be fine for the new server. It's not like anyone expects to play on it for another two decades. 4-5 good years would be really fun again, with the prospect of more if Wony actually maintained it and addressed future pacing issues and content releases.
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You know, it really sounds like you are overly concerned with an environment where you hear no disparaging comments. The reality of competitive play is that other people have opinions as well, and some of these opinions you may disagree with. But you need to put on your big boy pants and thicken your skin because real life doesn't have some [Content removed] named Terragg who can summon the people you don't like to court and get them kicked out of their job and locked in jail because that person said they don't like you.

Bro, you got jailed in NexusTK. Pretty sure that means you're the one who needs thicker skin. You obv let someone get to you so much that you snapped, despite knowing how bad the consequences would be.
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Even the jerkiest customer still deserves to access the service they are paying for.

You steadily gain respect from me with some of your posts, then you just piss it all away with statements like these. Never seen someone get kicked out of an NFL game? Never seen someone get banned from an MMO? With your logic, I could pay to get into Disneyland, stand next to Mickey, pull my pants down, and take a fat [Content removed] without getting removed from the park. You clearly haven't played Dota2 in any capacity. Fairly certain it's impossible to put 1k hours into that game without at least getting temp banned.
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halombobtk
post Sep 15 2016, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Sep 15 2016, 11:16 PM) *
Cause we've had this discussion about 20 times already so I'd rather post pictures instead of say the same thing again.

Are you sure? I read the past five years of posts and only OhHowSoCute mentioned it, once. I haven't found a single thread title containing anything about a new server, but if you'd like to point me to one, I'd appreciate it.
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CrewelLye
post Sep 16 2016, 03:31 PM
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I like your suggestions, but you are missing an important element that made this game great in the past, and that was it's roleplay. I never played this game for hunting or pk, just for for the sandbox elements it offered in roleplay. I have searched other games and never found one that was even close to offering at least one iota of the rp offered here. Don't discount it, there are still a large number of players that enjoyed this game for that aspect alone like I do.

However, I have noticed over the last 9 years of playing that this element has been slowly dying out, due allot in part to Archons and Event Characters rarely engaging or offering any kind of events, even though they have promised to do so and then either renege on the offers or just disappear when they are suppose to show up. As is, they only cater to the silly ministries and power struggles that ensue, they hardly listen to any of the subpath's ideas.

My hope is that if they do a new server that they keep this aspect, but at least use more engaging/active players for archons or event characters, or allow other players to join in with more degree. Term limits would be a nice addition so we don't have all the burn outs in the highest positions of power for decades.
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halombobtk
post Sep 16 2016, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (CrewelLye @ Sep 16 2016, 04:31 PM) *
I like your suggestions, but you are missing an important element that made this game great in the past, and that was it's roleplay.

Totally agree. Great points CrewelLye. The NexusTK I remember encouraged even left-brained robots like me to tap into their creative side once in a while. It's another huge differentiating asset the game has.
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Conro
post Sep 17 2016, 12:52 PM
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I don't understand writing novels to explain why this game failed.

The lack of understanding of how the game is played by players was the ultimate number one reason.
Time gating for nearly EVERYTHING.
Lack of adaption for how the game changed.

And HalombobTK, if you think the Justice system and "forcing players to be nice to each other" did any favors for the game, you're probably pre-dementia.

This game had one of the most toxic player bases I've ever experienced, and I played League of Legends for three years. The fact that you could convince a judge to jail another player and completely ruin their chance of playing most of the game turned the justice system into a petty way for people to try to get back at each other, while actual problems (harassment, real life threats, sexual harassment) were at the judge's interpretation.
Have a screenshot of a former friend saying a curse word in a private chat? Jailed!
Have a mound of evidence that someone is targeting you with harassment from multiple characters? No warning, brand, or intervention from KRU.

Coming out as gay in this game was a [Content removed]ing experience. Having a group of players that revolved around SuWaN's crew actively harass me for being gay and try to find every way possible to hint at it without out right saying it, while getting away with it time and time again, was pretty ridiculous. I've seen people in other games get permanently banned for a quarter of what people tried to do to me on a daily basis. I didn't care if they hated me over my ideas for the game, or because of PvP crap, but the anti-gay slurs were over the top and sanctioned by Tip and every other judge who'd see outright anti-gay slurs and just let it pass.

This game failed because it didn't look at other examples and try to emulate their success while maintaining the core of what makes the game unique (unlimited stats, player driven stories, player run politics).


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darkmaverick
post Sep 17 2016, 03:40 PM
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Don't have time to respond to everything you wrote, but I think a lot of it is addressable by reading my prior posts.

One thing though;

QUOTE (halombobtk @ Sep 15 2016, 11:39 PM) *
You steadily gain respect from me with some of your posts, then you just piss it all away with statements like these. Never seen someone get kicked out of an NFL game? Never seen someone get banned from an MMO? With your logic, I could pay to get into Disneyland, stand next to Mickey, pull my pants down, and take a fat [Content removed] without getting removed from the park. You clearly haven't played Dota2 in any capacity. Fairly certain it's impossible to put 1k hours into that game without at least getting temp banned.


Cursing at someone is not of the same magnitude as taking a dump in public.

While both actions may displease people, only the latter action poses any actual risk of harm to people.

I don't know why you think an issue of health and sanitation is of the same caliber of offense as speaking a single word, even heatedly. It's not a particularly rational assessment.


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halombobtk
post Sep 17 2016, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (Conro @ Sep 17 2016, 01:52 PM) *
Time gating for nearly EVERYTHING.

Name one time gate that wasn't sage related please. Or two, or five if you can. Since you used all-caps "EVERYTHING" surely there are dozens of time gates you can name.
QUOTE
And HalombobTK, if you think the Justice system and "forcing players to be nice to each other" did any favors for the game, you're probably pre-dementia.

Instant evidence for why you're biased against the justice system. Of course toxic players don't like rules against being toxic. You're being toxic as a 30+ y/o on a forum for a tiny, 18-year-old MMO. Same old Conro after all these years?
QUOTE
This game had one of the most toxic player bases I've ever experienced, and I played League of Legends for three years. The fact that you could convince a judge to jail another player and completely ruin their chance of playing most of the game turned the justice system into a petty way for people to try to get back at each other, while actual problems (harassment, real life threats, sexual harassment) were at the judge's interpretation.

I never experienced this despite pouring thousands of hours into the game. NexusTK wasn't toxic for me. All the petty bs was completely avoidable if you were a decent human being and didn't get under people's skin. In LoL or Dota2, you can be the nicest player in the world and still get berated by teammates due to the nature of random matchmaking and the low stakes of the reporting system. It's impossible to argue that the justice system didn't have an impact because people had to watch what they said publicly. It made the experience way better for non-toxic players like me, since I never had to see everyone's petty bs unless I voluntarily hopped on vent.
QUOTE
Coming out as gay in this game was a [Content removed]ing experience.

You were angsty af. I can't imagine how difficult that time in your life was, or how difficult it must be for anyone to come out. I remember hunting/pvping with you and being on vent. You were a really negative person. I'm guessing you were in a pretty [Content removed]ty place in the mid '00s, as most people are when they get heavily addicted to MMOs. I'm assuming you've grown up a little since then, but the game probably stirs up some negative emotions for you.
QUOTE
This game failed because it didn't look at other examples and try to emulate their success while maintaining the core of what makes the game unique (unlimited stats, player driven stories, player run politics).

Yup, but I'd throw pacing in there too. 1-99 was paced almost perfectly, and now early game dopamine gains are nonexistent for new players. Serious q: Do you ever think this game will be playable again? I would only ever consider playing if they made a new retro server, hence me lobbying for it.
QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Sep 17 2016, 04:40 PM) *
Cursing at someone is not of the same magnitude as taking a dump in public. While both actions may displease people, only the latter action poses any actual risk of harm to people.
I don't know why you think an issue of health and sanitation is of the same caliber of offense as speaking a single word, even heatedly. It's not a particularly rational assessment.

HOLY [Content removed] LOL. The juxtaposition of your post and Conro's is utter insanity. How clueless are you? Do you seriously think words can't cause harm? It's 2016 ffs. When you say "even the jerkiest customer still deserves to access the service they are paying for" I'm guessing that includes people who made fun of Conro for being gay, huh?

You literally just said cursing at someone doesn't cause harm. Like, you actually typed those words out. What little respect I had for your intelligence is circling the drain =/

I mean, I'm guessing you aren't that dumb. You seem like the type who hates losing arguments so badly that they start saying things they don't even believe instead of admitting a minor defeat.
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Doctor
post Sep 18 2016, 03:14 AM
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If words can harm you to the point that you need protection from them, then you don't live in the real world.


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