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Hijack
post Aug 2 2016, 09:43 PM
Post #21


Sam san
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people act like we want new players to be top 100 within a month of joining lmao
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SungKen
post Aug 2 2016, 10:15 PM
Post #22


Il san
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The only flaw I see in your theory Doc is your not accounting for from what I see the average experience everyone above you gets per day. Because you have to remember they are pulling away from you while your trying to catch up.


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Doctor
post Aug 2 2016, 11:06 PM
Post #23


Sa san
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QUOTE (SungKen @ Aug 2 2016, 08:15 PM) *
The only flaw I see in your theory Doc is your not accounting for from what I see the average experience everyone above you gets per day. Because you have to remember they are pulling away from you while your trying to catch up.

Everyone between sa san and mega stats (top 5 of your path) is getting the same amount of experience, for the most part, which is around 24-30 minutes a max.


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Doctor
post Aug 3 2016, 11:58 AM
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Sa san
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Also to put this in some other context, just 'cause I think it's funny: John Stockton played 19 years in the NBA, he played over 1500 games of basketball in his career. In total he only played 100 more hours of basketball than Egg spent hunting on NexusTK.


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Hijack
post Aug 3 2016, 12:11 PM
Post #25


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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 11:58 AM) *
Also to put this in some other context, just 'cause I think it's funny: John Stockton played 19 years in the NBA, he played over 1500 games of basketball in his career. In total he only played 100 more hours of basketball than Egg spent hunting on NexusTK.


Is that counting injuries and time on bench?
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Micoris
post Aug 3 2016, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 2 2016, 09:43 PM) *
people act like we want new players to be top 100 within a month of joining lmao


Top 100? No. Able to play with what little player base exists? Yes.
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Doctor
post Aug 3 2016, 01:46 PM
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Sa san
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QUOTE (Hijack @ Aug 3 2016, 10:11 AM) *
Is that counting injuries and time on bench?

My mistake. Stockton played 47764 minutes of basketball in 19 years, or 33 days. Eggio has hunted for 406680 minutes, or 284 days.

Ahaha...


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Krmit
post Aug 3 2016, 04:23 PM
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This is actually a serious question.

Are these top players, ACTUALLY sitting at their computer's button mashing their hunts out or is everything being done via some external 3rd party program.

Also, What do these people do with their lives, do they work, are they so rich they dont have to do anything besides play nexus all day?

Something doesnt add up between people who have lives and these top hunters.

If you are a top top top person, can you explain to us your daily routine, just curious.
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BeReal
post Aug 3 2016, 04:59 PM
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Il san
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QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 3 2016, 05:23 PM) *
This is actually a serious question.

Are these top players, ACTUALLY sitting at their computer's button mashing their hunts out or is everything being done via some external 3rd party program.

Also, What do these people do with their lives, do they work, are they so rich they dont have to do anything besides play nexus all day?

Something doesnt add up between people who have lives and these top hunters.

If you are a top top top person, can you explain to us your daily routine, just curious.



I wondered the same questions as well. however, obviously we know what happened with Egg.

Valandil and Eggs do indeed hunt legit, however they've also been playing the game off and on for 18 years.

Which is exactly why people are pushing for a catch up mechanic up to Sa San.
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Doctor
post Aug 3 2016, 06:20 PM
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8 of the top 20 players are legit hunters who have never botted, shared, or sold. For the most part it's just a battle of attrition for them with 1-4 maxes a day for years at a time, and then when events like wisdom star or pirates or asmodii come out they bump that up to like 30+ maxes a day.


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Krmit
post Aug 3 2016, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 07:20 PM) *
8 of the top 20 players are legit hunters who have never botted, shared, or sold. For the most part it's just a battle of attrition for them with 1-4 maxes a day for years at a time, and then when events like wisdom star or pirates or asmodii come out they bump that up to like 30+ maxes a day.


I get that but how in the world do these people do such a thing for so many years in a row. Do people not have lives or do things outside of a computer?
How does one make enough money to support rent/food/entertainment outside of this game if you put that many hours into it.
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Doctor
post Aug 3 2016, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (Krmit @ Aug 3 2016, 04:30 PM) *
I get that but how in the world do these people do such a thing for so many years in a row. Do people not have lives or do things outside of a computer?
How does one make enough money to support rent/food/entertainment outside of this game if you put that many hours into it.

It's honestly not that hard, it just has to be your main hobby. Work 9-5, come home and hunt for 1-3 hours a night. You'll be really, really, really buff after doing that for a decade.


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Hijack
post Aug 3 2016, 09:03 PM
Post #33


Sam san
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Aug 3 2016, 06:42 PM) *
It's honestly not that hard, it just has to be your main hobby. Work 9-5, come home and hunt for 1-3 hours a night. You'll be really, really, really buff after doing that for a decade.


Careful you might confuse people and they will think it's not hard to get to those stats. They're able to do that because they have the stats. People under Sa stats have a harder time finding people to play with. And of course you know that. Just making it clear for those who don't.
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Doctor
post Aug 3 2016, 09:13 PM
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Oh true, I don't mean to mince words. That's kind of the point though like you have to GRIND for 3-4 years+++ to get to what will be the new content. That's absurd.

Multiple people on in game boards want the game to stay exactly as is and "giving people easy ways to get stats takes the challenge out of the game."

Here's some riveting replies:

QUOTE (Aughra)
Imagine if people made climbing K2 super easy or Everest.
Well people have made it easier by risking their lives to make a living (sherpas and high altitude porters). And totally unskilled, suicidal inexperienced climbers do climb K2 somehow, and Everest (which is easier). Why should we make it easier for them? It's their choice to risk multiple people's lives going. I hate that mentality.
I would rather practice climing for 10-15 years on smaller mountains, plan my diet, train in high altitude for a prolonged amount of time, prepare by bringing lots of oxygen, proper food and drink. I wouldn't have someone do it all for me. I'd bring a radio and climb with a friend or alone, and communicate, and never do anything dangerous like summit late.
I will probably never do that anyway.
If we made 99 and il san hunts more enjoyable who would need sam san or sa san to have fun. Sage is easier to get now, only problem besides alliances would be how boring hunting is.
But we'll probably never get event caves frequently.
Just learn to cook healthy, get involved in sport and do something else. Why even get mad about it? I really only wanna get buff on my mage.
NOTHING in life worth getting should be easy. Maybe arrangements can be made for disabled, injured, young or old people.
I've told so many people struggling with veganism, weight or exercise. I've told them what to do I even offered to do it for them or with them. I don't even know why I'm making points here.
Just make max ancients, avatars, celestials and paramount characters. And maybe a couple sam ones for crusades.


QUOTE (SilentS 1)
Every year, I hear the same thing, and almost by the same people actually. "I want a way to make my lower level characters catch up to the top people in the game for less work than what they have done"... My few worthless cents on the issue:

<b>End Game Content!
Umm... WHAT end game content? For starters there is no real end game here. And whatever those top players in the game have access to, majority already have access to it. Aside from the very small handfull of caves that are Sam+, they are in the same caves that even EE's have access to for the most part. There is no end to Nexus. People will always keep getting stronger under the current structure. Making the "catch up" scenario useless.

Here is one that has cycled around a few times over the years:
<b>The game starts at 99!
No, it does not. It starts the moment you log in. There is plenty of content in the game sub 99. The ONLY issue at hand here is that the small population makes it hard to do much sub 99 since everybody is so gun-ho about getting leeched to EE+. This is what is making the lower levels and stats irrelevant and making those who are there really frustrated in finding no hunts.

<b>People cannot spend the time to catch up!
So? There is no real need for anybody to "catch up" to those who are in the top 100. There is nothing special about it. There is nothing really new and exciting about being there outside of just simply being the strongest. I have been in Nexus for 20 years. I started in my final year of Highschool. Meaning for the past 19 1/2 years I have been part of the "Work force" full time. For those who know me, they know I have juggled many jobs here WHILE working 12-14 hour shifts back when I was Elder, among other positions. I also was able to hunt decently (when I did). Even as a parent now, still possible.

<b>Conclusion:
I could rant and/or ramble on about everything that has been said on this issue for posts, but that is just a waste of my time. While changes here are needed, boosting the weak is not one of them at this time. Other fixes need attention to start getting new blood here (Tangun removal to start), and to draw back older players who left. Once this actually happens, then ALL levels would be relevant again, and make this whole matter moot, outside of the power/stat hungry hunters.


QUOTE (SilentS 2)
No, you dont "get it".

You obviously missed my point in my last paragraph. And no, my age here has nothing to do with anything, they were just mere examples on the complaints. OTHER fixes are needed here first to get people to start playing AND stay. Once that happens, then this current argument is invalid. Only the people who would cry about this, aside from yourself, are the ones who want things haneded to them. In this case, high statted players.

You keep whining about time. Well that is life in general. You have to work to earn something. Some things are easier than others. Hunting here is already WAY too mindless and easy. Under your reasonings, why do we even bother with pre EE? Why not just have everybody start off at EE stats? Think that would actually help? No it wouldnt. You quite literally sound like somebody who is an able bodied person on welfare who refuses to work when a job is available, and wants more money to stay at home ((this is an extreme example, but something I have seen personally)) just because you dont feel like it is worth your time to earn your own keep.


You're statements here do nothing to better the game. It is too focused on what you want to become (a top 50 player) rather than what is needed to make this place better starting from the ground up. Remember, if new players who keep trying this game (yes they do exist) do not make it past Tangun (granted that Tangun does not make them quit itself, which is the case most times), then the post 99 issues wont ever get better with the ever dwindling population.

Sure hunting needs to be changed in some ways, but not in this way. Hunting is not the only thing to do here. It is not the "end all" either. So drop that delusion. But here is a scenario.... Say everybody gets the bonus exp boosts under each Mark, then everybody is at Sam, or even Sa. Then what? Aside from your stats, nothing will have changed here. You still wont catch the top 100 players. Top 200 is about Oh stats to get in too. You start crying that those under Oh deserve 3x exp now to catch up?





This whole issue is ridiculous and looking at the wrong fixes that this place really needs.... Leave post 99 alone, fix pre 99 to get new players to stay, THEN work upwards..... Ugh todays gamers are too spoiled.....


QUOTE (SilentMeteor)
First off, I love you man. To me your a well respected awsome part of this game. Because of you this game is better for sure. But man, the things you are asking for. Your "fixes" too extreme in my opinion. I dont want the game to change. leave the spells alone. They have worked this far. The spells, are part of what nexus is. (change poet HB? you kill them all regardless)


Now for your gap in the power list. I dont care about the numbers. I feel it is a huge hurdle. 1600hrs to Oh san or w/e. That is part of this game too. YOU HAVE TO EARN IT. Just like you or anyone else has to earn it. What? we want everyone to be sa sans or oh sans at the gate? I dont, took me too long to get one of my characters sa san. Why shouldn't others have to do work for it. I agree with new content. Things like differnt balancers for carnies. We have crusades for a "more level" Pk. I agree with new areas for all levels with increased experience output. "new content" is good. Leave the old stuff alone. IMO its not nexus when u start changing what always has been.


I want to say more but i feel like if i go too deep ill end up with my foot in my mouth. So ill go with that. Be careful what you guys ask for. No one knows this game better than us. This new guy at the controls is smart, but how can he top 18 yrs experience of, IMO, the greatest MMORPG in existence? NO WAY NO HOW.



QUOTE (BagOfChips/Solman)
Alright I heard enough of this silly topic. Is there a stat gap? Oh you bet. Should people be able to reach Sa san or Oh san within a few days time? Hell no. Should it be easier? Eh that is debatable.

You have to realize those who spent years to get their stats, if you are just gonna make it so people can catch them on a whim, its pathetic.

Again I will never advocate the easy way. People need to earn their merits in this game. Wealth and stats included. That being said, most people do not know where or how to hunt effectively and efficently as possible. This is okay. We however do need more places where these optimized places are to allow more people to hunt said places. This is a general must.

As time goes on we will get caves and places that has more and faster exp. This is just a natural growth of any game like this. However again you can not limit the time and effort put into a character by huge fractions of time. IE if it takes 1600 hours to get OH san stats. A new player should not be able to obtain this in say 100 hours. At the very least it should take them 1200-1400 hours as of right now. Its gotta be a progression of faster exp.

How do we do this? Again more of the optimized hunting areas so multiple groups can take advantage and not just 1. Throw a few more quests and so forth that reward good exp. If I can be a new player and get EE san stats 320k/160k in 1 week (if I have no life) then those who dont have the time should be over a year. Add quests and we can argue maybe 3/4ths of a year. But to say those who can get EE san in a week and all of a sudden these guys can get EE san in say 2 days is utterly stupid.

We are not talking about these crazy power hunters anymore that hunt 24/7. Most of those are gone. So catching these buff characters shouldnt be as big of an issue anymore. Again, put in the work, and quit getting everything and i do mean EVERYTHING handed to you.


When I read these I feel like I'm taking [Content removed]ing crazy pills.


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SilentS
post Aug 4 2016, 07:10 AM
Post #35


Sa san
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Meh. Not going to defend myself, just stating a point. My second post was after listening to the person I replied to whine for a good hour and a bit repeating the same lines over and over again trying to justify his words on clan chat. I stand by my replies and still say Nexus needs changes from the bottom up, not starting at the top. As it is the double exp is still in effect for those who are under 99, but exp gain is the least of our worries at this moment.


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mlswm
post Aug 4 2016, 07:34 AM
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literally every other game ever has catch up mechanics and it doesn't ruin anything
like yea sorry you took 18 years to get oh san vita or whatever but it shouldn't take everyone else that long to catch up to current content
anyone who disagrees is legit stupid and it doesn't even need an explanation.
the game has been static for 10+ years and that's why it is total garbage
you talk about today's gamers being spoiled but this isn't 1995 anymore. we're not playing everquest. people don't want to do that [Content removed] anymore. if you want new people to try the game and stay then you need to adapt it to current times. people should be able to play casually and still participate in current content.

you sound like an old bitter dude yelling at kids to get off his lawn. maybe you just need to croak already.
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Krmit
post Aug 4 2016, 09:06 AM
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How about all new content that comes out, you put people into 1 cave and their exp just gets scaled appropriately instead. Have a balancer type of system so that lower level people and higher level people could be on the same platform for events, this would mean more people in the caves that we need to be in to accomplish the end goal?
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darkmaverick
post Aug 4 2016, 09:28 AM
Post #38


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For perspective, the stat tiers in NexusTK are:

Il san : 160,000 Vitality or 80,000 Mana
Ee san : 320,000 Vitality or 160,000 Mana
Sam san : 640,000 Vitality or 320,000 Mana
Sa san : 1,280,000 Vitality or 640,000 Mana
Oh san : 2,560,000 Vitality or 1,280,000 Mana
Yuk san 5,120,000 Vitality or 2,560,000 Mana
Chil san 10,240,000 Vitality or 5,120,000 Mana
Pal san: 20,480,000 Vitality or 10,240,000 Mana
Gu san : 40,960,000 Vitality or 20,480,000 Mana
Ship san 81,920,000 Vitality or 40,960,000 Mana.

Eggs is ranked #7 and has reached 6.8M Vita and 2M Mana. I can't see the stats of those above eggs because they are private, but it is safe to assume the rest of them are above Yuk san as well.

Going down the list, Dobby is at rank #27 and shows his stats as 3M / 2.4M so he's just under the qualifications for Yuk san.

That means presently there is 26 characters in the game who stand in the sixth tier and as it stands right now, it would take many years for a new player to reach that tier. This is important.

The concern isn't so much that new players need to "catch up" to the highest stat players but rather that the high stat players and new players both need activity partners to play the game, and there currently are major issues with allowing them to hunt together.

NexusTK has a significant bottleneck problem in its design, which is a huge flaw due to its low player population.

Characters having insanely higher stats than the rest of the population is only a game balance issue in PVP events like Carnages, and when the game population is so low that the top Warriors, Rogues and Mages monopolize the Poets, making it hard for players of much lower stats to find hunting partners.

The former can be solved with the balancer items that limit a character's max stats in a carnage division. That's easy enough to address.

The latter problem is tougher to solve.

The obvious solution to address high stat players monopolizing Poets is to create new cave tiers for Sa san+ but if these characters were placed into their own new cave tiers some people would find they could no longer find a hunt anymore due to a low number of Poets who can enter; for example with Yuk san, there is exactly 7 poets who would be available. Bear in mind, there is only 27 players above Yuk san. Do they all play at the same time? Do they all get along? Will they enjoy hunting with each other? The answers to these questions are likely to be "No".

The players whose main activity for years has been to PvE need to be able to hunt in order to maintain interest in the game. If they can't login and find a hunt in a reasonable time frame, they will quit.

At the same time, because of the low player population you need the most veteran players to be able to interact with the newbies in order for the newbies to become integrated into the online community and become loyal subscribers. Most games these days now address the issue by creating instance dungeons and a "Duty Finder" mechanic that matches veteran players with new players to run a dungeon, and both players get rewards suitable to their rank (newbies gets XP and new gear; veterans get special currency to buy special high level gear). Balance is maintained by level scaling the veteran character down to the same stats as the newbie. But NexusTK does not use instanced dungeons so this is more difficult to implement, though not impossible.

It could very well be a good solution is to go ahead and implement new cave tiers at Sa san+, but at the same time implement a way for veteran characters to scale down their stats to party with lower stat characters via some kind of new mentor system (probably modeled on the system that City of Heroes used where the level scaling is dependent on the level of the character -- or in NexusTK's case, the levels and San marks. So if an Oh san Warrior chose to mentor an Il san Poet, the Oh san warriors vita and mana would adjust to max out at Il san Vita and Mana. ).

Both the character being mentored and the mentor would find it easier to form a party regardless of level with no accusations of "leeching". All that would be needed is to add a level scale mechanic to items (so that Oh san spikes now gain the stats of Il san spikes during mentoring, for example), spells that exceed the mentor's adjusted level would be disabled (you temporarily can't use sa san spells if you are scaled to il san) and a reward mechanic that veterans would find useful (probably an extremely large experience multiplier so that hunting in an Il san cave at Yuk san stats would actually merit you good XP generation for buying stats at Yuk san tier).


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And my top picks for Sa san warrior shield were......

...I totally want that sword too.
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Krmit
post Aug 4 2016, 10:39 AM
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I cant believe i am saying i agree fully with DM's assessment however i doubt any really high players even want to associate with people that they dont know because they're so reclusive and cliquey. Most whom i know i have known for 18 years socially from community aspect because i have been playing so long but i was never driven by hunting in game.

Which is why i care so little about extreme stat gain. I enjoy casually hunting, going to carnage and community events, being a part of subpath's etc. We all have different motivation as to why we play this game.
Some people grow their E-Peen through being good @ PVP, some like stat notoriety on the power list.

I do think though that building new caves for the highest players is not worth it though, I mean how much faster do you need to max out when its already happening in 1-2 rages. What do they expect to max out in 1 swing? There comes a point in time when if you want to get higher, grind it out in the same cave or make different caves same EXP in like a Diablo 3 type of format where the map could change every time you enter as to not get bored in the same caves.

The problem is people refuse to hunt anyplace else but the best places, even if it could mean maxing out in 18 minutes over 15 minutes. There are plenty of places in nexus to hunt for EXP. The more exp you start giving those top top's, the farther and longer the gap will be to close.

Fundamentally, nexus has always been about players having the unlimited potential to grow their characters, but i dont think even 20 years ago it was expected that it would come to people being 6m+++ in stats.
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Doctor
post Aug 4 2016, 12:05 PM
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DM is right with most of that. I still think the biggest issue is that it takes so obnoxiously long to hit the content floors.

1. To reach sam san it takes you 44 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So realistically more like 70-90 hours of power hunting. On top of that you have to wait SIX MONTHS to get Sage 5. For reference it takes about 50-70 hours to go from having never flown a plane to obtaining your flying license. A bachelor's degree takes around 96 hours of classwork.

2. To reach sa san it takes 144 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So more like 220ish hours depending on your path to sam san/vort 3 stats. 200 hours. On top of that you have to wait FOUR. HUNDRED. DAYS. TO COMPLETE THE MINOR QUEST TRIAL. 400 DAYS. For reference the formal training time for electricians to become fully licensed and apple is 144 clock hours of classroom on top of their work schedule.

3. To reach oh san it will take you 526 hours assuming 30 minutes a max from level 99. So, again, more like 600ish. 600 hours. We have no idea if there will be additional time trials, but assuming there isn't 600 hours is the average amount of time it would take to complete your bachelors, your masters, and your doctorate for almost any non STEM field.

So, this is a video game. It's a game. A game. Games need to be designed for people assuming this can't be their full time job, and they need to be designed in a way that brings people to the CONTENT FLOOR as soon as possible. The content floor is the highest mark you can currently reach in the game. The content ceiling is limitless.


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