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> Jail system, What did Wony mean
Ace
post Jun 22 2016, 08:19 PM
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I'll add my agreement that player run justice is bunk and should be done away with.

I'll also back up the assertions that there wasn't an appeals process with my own anecdote. Long long ago (yuri 40s) my girlfriend at the time played Nexus. She didn't give a crap about hunting/pvp/stats, she was just in it for the RP. One day she got into an argument with a diviner over some RP related thing. The next day she was jailed by an archon for using automated third party programs. Obviously this wasn't something she'd done, or ever would do.

There was nothing she could do about it. She tried contacting the archon - reply was something along the lines of "don't cheat next time." She tried contacting the head archon who just referred her back to the archon who jailed her. She tried contacting the judges who said they couldn't do anything about something an archon had done. She tried submitting a ticket but there was never any reply.

The whole point of the game for her was participating in RP, doing subpath events, and gathering legend marks, but with the serious other jailing she wasn't able to participate in many of those things. After trying to figure a way around it she eventually gave up and quit the game, although before she quit she was able to attend tribunal and get the red mark removed, after quite a bit of work. It still left the blue handled by mark on her, which still left her unable to participate in some things.

Point is, somebody dealt with getting upset over an argument by ruining the whole game for the person they were upset with, and that power is still available to select players today. That type of system is broken and should be gone. There should be a paid person at the office who handles the justice system, not players.


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Yeas
post Jun 22 2016, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 22 2016, 09:19 PM) *
I'll add my agreement that player run justice is bunk and should be done away with.

I'll also back up the assertions that there wasn't an appeals process with my own anecdote. Long long ago (yuri 40s) my girlfriend at the time played Nexus. She didn't give a crap about hunting/pvp/stats, she was just in it for the RP. One day she got into an argument with a diviner over some RP related thing. The next day she was jailed by an archon for using automated third party programs. Obviously this wasn't something she'd done, or ever would do.

There was nothing she could do about it. She tried contacting the archon - reply was something along the lines of "don't cheat next time." She tried contacting the head archon who just referred her back to the archon who jailed her. She tried contacting the judges who said they couldn't do anything about something an archon had done. She tried submitting a ticket but there was never any reply.

The whole point of the game for her was participating in RP, doing subpath events, and gathering legend marks, but with the serious other jailing she wasn't able to participate in many of those things. After trying to figure a way around it she eventually gave up and quit the game, although before she quit she was able to attend tribunal and get the red mark removed, after quite a bit of work. It still left the blue handled by mark on her, which still left her unable to participate in some things.

Point is, somebody dealt with getting upset over an argument by ruining the whole game for the person they were upset with, and that power is still available to select players today. That type of system is broken and should be gone. There should be a paid person at the office who handles the justice system, not players.


And a perfect example right there of why players in power positions are terrible. Its easy for them to justify their actions when its against other types of players, but a fellow RP'er?


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Doctor
post Jun 22 2016, 09:42 PM
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[And we go live to the scene with justice deliberating on the community's forums posting!]



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darkmaverick
post Jun 22 2016, 10:49 PM
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Oh san
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QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 22 2016, 08:19 PM) *
Point is, somebody dealt with getting upset over an argument by ruining the whole game for the person they were upset with, and that power is still available to select players today. That type of system is broken and should be gone. There should be a paid person at the office who handles the justice system, not players.


Lots of stories like this.

I just remembered back during the King Yuri event when Archons were stuffing NB gear and flameblades into enemies, supposedly at "random" but it happened to be that a large number of Diviners "discovered" the items.

It's no secret the Archons have historically been drawn from the Diviner membership and has led to a lot of favoritism.


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Doctor
post Jun 23 2016, 12:29 AM
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Alright, so here is a ridiculously long conversation with Teragg about the current justice system, specifically relating to speech laws. I realize I come across as taking this [Content removed] way too seriously in this and say some silly things, but oh well. It's uh... pretty eye opening as to why there has never been any pressure to change or adapt in regards to the laws in the game. Some seriously funny moments too. Teragg was a good sport, but uh, yeah.





















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Zalifer
post Jun 23 2016, 04:41 AM
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Suprised Teragg didnt jail you for saying f'ing


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Yeas
post Jun 23 2016, 07:08 AM
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The was the most out of touch with society (read: the game) conversation I've ever read.


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Krmit
post Jun 23 2016, 09:22 AM
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*SMH*

Teragg is out of touch with the real world its sad. I think he is either/multiple of the following:

1) Very religious
2) Been doing this too long
3) Out of touch with Reality
4) Hypersensitive

That was a very disturbing conversation in the sense that that person is responsible for the game play and life on game of everyone else. If wony needs one excuse to get rid of justice system all he needs to do is read how out of touch the people are that are appointed to those positions. I almost read that conversation on eggshells thinking that you were going to get arrested for merely saying f'ing. We are in 2016 who refers to something as the s-word or the b-word. *lol face*

Teragg sounds like a nun/grandfather from the 1940's about to slap child with that ruler if they speak out of turn.
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Songa
post Jun 23 2016, 10:51 AM
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Ok, the whole system is flawed and because of that we really can't blame individuals for working with what they have. Being a guide was hard because there was a constant battle between keeping to an unspoken code of conduct vs. wanting to just play a game. It was especially hard to remain neutral and my personal opinions definitely leaked into my decisions.

Story time! I had a run in with mug who (after I admittedly saged something dumb but not illegal) decided to summon himself next to me to "make an example out of me." He sent me to time out for making a stupid your mom joke and got me kicked from a subpath. This is a prime example of what's wrong with the game. I bore no red mark and was still treated as if I did. (I even tried to apply for another subpath months later and was denied because of the incident). Mug and i had argued over nmails in which he said how much of a nuisance I was and he was tired of my mischief. The problem was that this was on an alternative character that I thought no one knew about--meta gaming at its finest. Someone had messaged mug about the sage, saying how bad it was and that I kept doing it. (I wasn't) So this person was obviously friends with mug and didn't like me, so they took the opportunity to get me in trouble. THIS is what's wrong with the game and something that will most likely never be resolved. People make gun shot opinions on you usually based on hearsay and will deny you of normal gameplay elements because of them.

Edit: That conversation with Terragg just further proves how the people in power are so out of touch with gaming today. They are still stuck back in the 1999 version of NexusTK and don't want to change a thing about that it probably keeps them up at night. They are important in-game, they make a difference. So of course they are going to yell at anyone who dares to change that. Sure, a lot of former players are bitter but that's not to say current players aren't biased as hell. Wony has his work cut out for him in figuring out a middle ground.

This post has been edited by Songa: Jun 23 2016, 11:39 AM
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Brant
post Jun 23 2016, 10:55 AM
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I had a conversation through n-mail with Teragg a few months ago regarding the law he wrote about 'revealing peoples alts' that ended with him saying never to contact him again. I'll post it up here tonight.
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Doctor
post Jun 23 2016, 11:06 AM
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It's a wild conversation and I completely disagree with what Teragg said about nearly everything, but to be completely fair Teragg has always been real cool to me, honest, and not biased. I can't speak for others but I've always been able to have reasonable adult conversations with the guy even if we're on opposite sides of the spectrum.


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darkmaverick
post Jun 23 2016, 01:20 PM
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To respond to some of Teragg's arguments:

I. Cursing:

There is absolutely no research whatsoever that swearing causes any kind of psychological harm.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index....f-swearing.html

"Swearing can occur with any emotion and yield positive or negative outcomes. Our work so far suggests that most uses of swear words are not problematic. We know this because we have recorded over 10,000 episodes of public swearing by children and adults, and rarely have we witnessed negative consequences. We have never seen public swearing lead to physical violence. Most public uses of taboo words are not in anger; they are innocuous or produce positive consequences (e.g., humor elicitation). No descriptive data are available about swearing in private settings, however, so more work needs to be done in that area."


In the past anecdotal evidence has been provided that if parents see swearing in the game, they refuse to let that kid play the game and this hurts revenue. This is contradicted by the fact the ToS of the game require you to be 18 years old.

http://www.nexustk.com/download.html

"Payment
You represent that you are at least 18 years old, that you are legally able to enter into this Agreement ...."


Kids surely do play the game but they waive any expectation of not being subjected to content that parents may deem inappropriate for children.

"Parental Guidance
Parents may feel that some content within Kru Interactive Games is inappropriate for pre-teen players. In addition, while Kru Interactive may, in its sole discretion, choose to act upon inappropriate use of "chat" and game play within Kru Interactive Games, it is always possible that, at any time, there may be language or other material parents may deem inappropriate for their children. You understand that Kru Interactive has expressed its rules in this Agreement regarding appropriate game play; however, Kru Interactive cannot guarantee that other Kru Interactive Games players will not provide content or access to content that parents or guardians may find objectionable. Kru Interactive does not, as a matter of policy, screen or "police" the content of the materials or communications transmitted by each Kru Interactive Games player. "


Thus parents concerned about their children coming into contact with adults who swear simply should not let their kids play the game. The vast majority of MMO players are adults, and again, there's no scientific evidence to suggest profanity in itself has any harmful effects.

Teragg just doesn't want to admit that he's presided over actions that ruined the gameplay of hundreds and hundreds of players for years. It would probably shatter his ego if he admitted he's been wrong. That he would quit the game if the Justice system was removed shows the only reason he is playing is so he can jail people he doesn't like.

II. Freedom of speech

Also Teragg betrays his lack of understanding of the American legal system by claiming that 1st amendment has been tainted when he said, "I think the freedom of speech has been convoluted by legal whatever, and the basic rule of what is right is lost by that." The entire purpose of the freedom of speech is to protect speech that people do not like. It specifically protects against speech that is unpopular and that people want to censor.

If he wants to argue this, well he can hear it directly from the US Court website and that in every court case involving the 1st Amendment, the court has protected the right of people to hear and say unpopular ideas.

Of course, as a videogame, the owners of the game are allowed to set whatever rules they like inside it so long as these rules comply with law. The right to free speech only pertains to state ran agencies and state funded businesses, which KRU most certainly is not. However the point is Teragg demonstrates he is ill educated on what the concept of freedom of speech is about when he claims it has been twisted to protect things that are wrong; the very purpose of the ideal is to protect the right of people to express controversial ideas.

The purpose of the 1st Amendment was to protect ideas that may be seen as radical and unpopular, because the founders realized it is important for people to hear multiple sides of an issue in order to find the best solutions to problems, and that a society that punishes people for expressing unpopular opinions will inevitably become a society that does not serve the common good. That which is popular is not always right, and that is which is right is not always popular.

It can be said that the reason NexusTK has so many design problems and low player retention is that its GMs, Archons and Judges more often than not are quick to silence dissenting voices that contradict their own opinions. Meanwhile other MMO forums may often resemble a cesspool of angry shouting and complaining, but by listening to these heated exchanges between players the GM team is able to hear all possible sides of an argument and then use monitoring data to create solutions to design issues.

Historically NexusTK GMs, Archons and Judges has been largely concerned with ensuring the playerbase is docile to their designs, rather than participatory in the designs. It's only a minority of players that get to contribute ideas to the game, and in the vast majority of cases these contributions are done in echo chambers. Good ideas are rarely the product of a vacuum.


III. Profanity filters

Lastly, Teragg's argument that the existence of profanity filters in other games shows that GMs of those games must believe profanity is harmful is nonsense. Most of the time the feature is optional, and can be disabled. I personally play with the profanity filters turned off because the profanity filter has a tendency to apply itself to words that aren't profane but use some of the similar letter ordering, like say "assumption" or "assist" (Those are some extreme examples but you get the idea). I remember getting frustrated in Atlantica Online because I was trying to discuss a boss tactic with someone and we couldn't write the name of the boss into chat because the profanity filter was applying to it because it incorporated a variation on a swear and the boss name hadn't been added to the exception list of the profanity filter.

Profanity filters are a feature to accommodate players who are troubled by profanity. In other games there aren't severe punishments for intentionally going around the profanity filter to curse at someone, because that's what the ignore feature is for.


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Alston
post Jun 23 2016, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jun 20 2016, 09:03 PM) *
I swear, NexusTK has no need for the justice system if you'd just fix all these idiotic [Content removed]ing things about it that individually can be addressed in a couple freakin minutes. How hard is it to make a confirmation window? It's not. You know it and I know it.

Fix your damn game. Something this obviously critical to address should not still be happening for a decade. The only excuse is gross incompetence on behalf of the people you hire as GMs.


From someone who had a hand in the creation of the Justice System, I agree on all points (including your subsequent replies).

The system, from the word go, has become a tool of control and griefing. It wasn't originally supposed to be for every little stupid offense, nor meant to be tied so tightly to the marks system and used by subpaths as a barrier of entry.


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Brancrese
post Jun 23 2016, 05:31 PM
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I didnt read it all, cause frankly I don't care enough to spend more than 6 minutes on it.

If it wasn't for the fact that he's playing a computer game, I would think Teragg is probably Amish. Good lord, how out of touch with reality can you be?
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Brant
post Jun 23 2016, 05:50 PM
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Hold on to your seats.

==================






Hi Teragg,

My wife and I were talking tonight and she asked me if I'd been reading anything on RT lately. I haven't, so she pointed me to a post that was made by Offai regarding Justice Case #360 between Spiri and Nihilism. Based on what I read, it appears that Spiri did attempt to reveal the identity of another player's characters without her permission, which is in direct violation of Law 199.

I didn't quite understand your explaination of the situation, specifically with regards to your response on the contents of the screenshots provided. It appears you confirm that Spiri did attempt the reveal the identity of Nihilism's alt characters, but it doesn't fall under rule 199 beacuse Spiri was responding to a quesiton that someone else asked.

If this is the case, had someone replaced Nihilism's name with the name of an immortal character and Spiri had responded with a name, that would be in direct violation of existing laws, which prevent players from attempting to reveal the identity of immortal's mortal characters.

Law 199 clearly outlines the situations in which communication about another players private information is in violation of said law. You authored this law, so I know that you already know this.

What I don't understand is how this case, the actions of the people involved, and the evidence provided are not in direct violation of Law 199. Please, if you would, explain what makes what Spiri said legal?

Rather than whispering you, I wrote this letter instead so it doesn't feel like I'm pressuring you into responding quickly. Please take your time; I hope to hear back from you.

Thanks,
Brandon

==================

Real simple. Law 199 states..."public media" and gives typical examples. Open speech in Sire is not a public exposure
even close to the examples. Further, there was no malicious intent, nor initiated by Spiri, nothing more than the typical
speculation done every day by everyone.

Intent, severity of exposure, all play a part.

Teragg

==================

Except that's not what the law says. The law clearly states,"...on any public media including but not limited to sage, world shout, boards, clan or path chat..."

Saying something out-loud in sire pit is no different than saying something in path chat or clan chat, or yelling it outloud. Saying something outloud to the Public, regardless of how many people are present, is "Public Media."

Again, the context in which you define 'public media' is basically anything other than a whisper/group chat.

You're bending your own law so that it doesn't incriminate one of your own Judges. This is just another shining example of how un-fit Spiri is to be a Judge, and I, along with many others, are losing respect for you and the justice system because of it. I haven't always agreed with the way you run the Justice department, but you as a person, I've always respected.

After seeing how you've handled this entire situation with Spiri, I truly believe you've begin to stray away from ethic and moral responsibilites of Head Judge. Over the last few years you've let relationships with the others around you, mortal and immortal cloud your judgement and responsibilties as a Head Judge.

The most recent example of this was your post on RT regarding your relationship with Alil in response to a post that was made by another player who was criticizing the Archon. No mortal player should have an unprofessional relationship like the one you described with an immortal -- I can understand having worked with her over the years, but going out of your way to make a post about someone who's entire purpose is to distance themselves from relationships with players and keep anonimity, directly contradicts this mechanism put in place by KRU.

Nobody is forcing you to be Head Judge, so as long as you bare that title, I believe you should do so with respect, so that all members of the community can be treated fairly and without bias. It's easy to make friends with those that you're around often, but you always have to remember your duties as the Head Judge of this community. If you can't do that (and I don't blame you at all), I would suggest relenquishing your position as Head Judge.



-Brandon

====================

Open speech is not considered "public media", strictly speaking. Clan chat, path chat, could be exposure to a large number of folks, as opposed to only those present in a closed room, ie: basically what your screen shows. When the law is specific in some criteria, but "is not limited, etc." then individual circumstances come into play...where, why etc, just as with any law. You can NOT write a black and white law.

Bending the law? No. The response would have been identical no matter who the defendant was. The law was created primarily to stop wholesale broadcasting, with malicious intent, of details some players wish to keep private. Do I have to give examples of that to you?

Further..where do you get the impression my relationship is anything but professiona in regards to Alilolelotte?? Yes, a friend I have known professionally for many years, as long as I have been a judge, and before that, a primogen. Are you so naive as to think such relationship, based on duties here, can not develop into a friendship, and I repeat...based on duties.

A duty to distance themselves? Why do you consider someone being caring, compassionate, fair and always responding when needed for assistance to be lumped in on that? Do I whisper her jokes? Do I discuss the weather, or inquire where she lives? No. But respect her, trust her, and KNOW from dealing with her she truly cares about this game deserves defending when as an Archon, while she may feel this, she cant respond in kind.
I, as I posted, am not thusly restrictive.

You have a warped perception of some things.

Teragg

====================


Again, you're simply tailoring this law on the fly, when in reality it's just making you look less competent.

The entire intent of the law is to secure privacy for players. Where, how, or who is around to hear it does not matter. It could be 2 people in sire, or 10 in clan chat. Either way, the privacy of players is at risk in both scenarios. Truth be told, I'd be much more comfortable with someone speaking about me or my alts in path or clan chat than I would around the people who dwell in sire pit. Look at all the justice cases and issues that arise from players in Sire Pit.

You're ignoring the point of this law, and if you mean it to truly be intrepeted how you've explained it to me, you need to re-write the law. As it stands now, it does not truly protect the privacy of the players it's intended to. As it stands now, the law is merely a weapon and only works when the 'correct' ammunition is used.

My perception in all of this is coming from a point of view where I'm not at all invovled with anyone in case. You on the otherhand are directly related with the accused, the law in question itself, and the outcome of this case since the accused is also one of your Judges. If anyone's perception is warped, it's yours.

-Brandon

=======================

It's obvious you began this with a preconceived notion, and anything I say is dismissed by you. And that's ok as everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you wont entertain the thought you might be in error, then I dont understand your goal in opening this discussion to begin with. To that end, let's simply agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

Teragg


=======================

The only thoughts I came into this conversation with were from the dialogue you had with the community when Law 199 was posted. I sat in there for 2+ hours as people asked questions and you answered them.

Law 199 does not protect the privacy of the players because according to the results of Case #360, a player's privacy can still be violated. The Law is therefore flawed, and I'm only coming to this conclusion based on what you've told me, not because I thought so in the first place.

I came into this conversation seriously curious as to what I was missing in all of this. Trust me, I've taken everything you've said thus far into consideration, and I've come to the conclusion that the Law isn't accurate -- it has holes and it can be manipulated by the Judges.

If you're going to protect the privacy of players by not allowing others to speak about other players alts, personal life, etc. than do it across the board. No outlet at all should be permitted.

-Brandon

=======================

I am going to try this one more time. But at least, from the absense of further allegations, that you realize the resolution of that case would be the same, regardless of the defendant.

Since this game began, players speculate on alts. That is nothing new. Only when this became blatant, ie: TkReporter chief in this, but yes, others as well, and began saging it, posting it to boards, etc, that is law then became necessary. If you cant see the difference between a couple of players discussing possible identies as opposed to someone maliciously posting on a board claimed actual alt identies, then I cant begin to explain it.

As I said before, no law can be black and white. The law states the most blatant, and serious, saging/world shouting, or posting as a written record to ANYONE in game seeing. From there, on a graduated scale, you go to the most minor, a couple players speculating.

Determining the intent, the circumstances, and the degree of exposure then falls upon the judges, and speculation is removed as much as possible with known evidence.

This is no different than the profanity laws. Sage it, post it...ya gonna be hammered, especially if directed at a player. From that, lets slide down the scale to a relatively mild profanity in a conversation, not directed at anyone, and inadvertantly overheard. Are you naive to think there should be zero tolerance (unrealistic) or equal punishment, regardless of severity, etc?

I would think you would recognize the need to determine that, and then for a judge or archon to act accordingly....not black and white "ya said it, its illegal. Jailed"

Teragg

=======================

The problem with everything you wrote in that last mail shows that you don't understand the community. This entire law began as a response to a justice case (a complete joke of one at that) of two powerful players getting upset that somebody called them out on something they did that maked them look bad. Two sisters who shared subpath marks with each other. This law was never originally meant to be for privacy of the players.

However, during the entire time that this law was discussed, it was said to be about the privacy of the players; I feel like you're adament that it still is and does protect the privacy of players, yet this entire case between Spiri and Nihilism is now become a huge deal -- all over something minor said outloud in sire pit. This in itself proves no matter how large or small the audience, there is always a way for this information to be spread to more people.

Someone could just as easily take that screenshot (or any screenshot of someone revealing private details about someone) said to a few people in sire pit, and post it on Facebook, where hundreds of people would see it. If you're going to attempt to make a law in the name of privacy, you need to do a better job.

Then again, you're just a volunteer, a player of the game. Making rules for other players which have a direct impact on their characters/accounts. That in itself is ridiculous if KRU can't make rules for their own game. Otherwise we wouldn't be here aruging about a law written by a player where it's enforcement is solely dependent on said player.

This 'game' has become a glorified daycare where narcissistic, power tripping ego maniacs get to abuse other players without repercussions. Spiri will eventually push you too far and do something so stupid that you couldn't possibly make up and excuse not have to remove him from Judge. Hopefully it won't take as long as the cases with Drucilla did (you have too much faith in people.) It's just a matter of how many player experiences he can ruin before that happens, and that's on you.

-Brandon

========================

Exactly who are you to tell me why I wrote this law? This case you speak of between two sisters? Does not ring a bell.
I wrote this law after numerous complaints from many different people being outed on alt ids, as well as, but to a lessor degree, having irl information being released ingame. I dont, and wont be involved in the drama that may lead one to out another....every player who plays this game deserves that protection. NO SINGLE CASE MOTIVATED ME.

At this point, I dont care what you think. You do NOT call me a liar to my face, and expect me to continue. Do not contact me further. I dont do insults well at all.

========================
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Hijack
post Jun 23 2016, 07:57 PM
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Wait...... revealing someone's alt (not an archon) is against the rules now? Am I reading that right?
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darkmaverick
post Jun 23 2016, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (Hijack @ Jun 23 2016, 07:57 PM) *
Wait...... revealing someone's alt (not an archon) is against the rules now? Am I reading that right?


http://boards.nexustk.com/Law/Alilolelotte01230199.html

Yep.

The only purpose of this law is to protect Guides, Elders, Tutors, Judges, Primogens, etc. from having their attempts to monopolize the game's politics exposed.

This rule won't stop people sharing the info, obviously people are going to talk about this stuff but it now gives them a way to punish people who dare oppose their activities.

As I said before, the Justice system exists for the sole purpose of protecting the status quo of those who control the game's administration.


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Alston
post Jun 23 2016, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jun 23 2016, 07:32 PM) *
http://boards.nexustk.com/Law/Alilolelotte01230199.html

Yep.

The only purpose of this law is to protect Guides, Elders, Tutors, Judges, Primogens, etc. from having their attempts to monopolize the game's politics exposed.

As I said before, the Justice system exists for the sole purpose of protecting the status quo of those who control the game's administration.

I concur.

They're also not above taking someone's idea and subsequently disposing of them using justice. Happened a lot back in my day, and I doubt it's gone away.


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darkmaverick
post Jun 23 2016, 09:44 PM
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This law really does demonstrate perfectly how utterly corrupt the Justice system has become.

It's also HILARIOUS how inconsistent their own logic is.

They declared that anyone posting details about someone's alt is a jailable offense if done by any "public media" (which I assume could even be this forum) and then go on to lecture about the importance of player privacy and stress how important it is for in-game characters to be treated as if they were real people.

The Judges and Archons are either having a very difficult time with reality, or (the more likely case) they wrote this law to justify jailing people who want to point out their monopolization attempts and invented a weak argument about meta-gaming as the justification for it.


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Alston
post Jun 23 2016, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jun 23 2016, 07:44 PM) *
The Judges and Archons are either having a very difficult time with reality, or (the more likely case) they wrote this law to justify jailing people who want to point out their monopolization attempts and invented a weak argument about meta-gaming as the justification for it.

You think?

A 5-year-old could see this.

When one guy has five characters running a clan, 3 subpaths and an archon doesn't want people to cry about it, jail them.

It was the same stupid argument against why archons should remain anonymous (yes, 20 years ago I actually defended them on this, but obviously transparency is needed for all the reasons you stated).


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