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> 92 Shaman Booted, What gives?
ShiKago
post Nov 16 2006, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE(Ishman @ Nov 16 2006, 06:30 PM) [snapback]18106[/snapback]

No offense intended, but it seems to me, by this post, that the only motive for Wasse's removal was that he didn't speak to people. For all we know, that was the only time that ever happened. Perhaps Wasse had his reasons for doing so. Every once in awhile, I'll go into the circle but not speak.

That just seems to me like a silly reason to remove someone so influential, nay anyone at all, from a path; daresay, one that adds weight to the claims that some people were removed not for inactivity, but for personal reasons.

Does this logic make sense? Am I wrong?


Are you kidding me? Please tell me you are joking! You saw that post as a motive?? Holy catz! I stated clearly that I understood why he was upset..sort of. Then stated obversations! Why do people only read what they want to read, then post?? GAH! Those are MY observations. I was trying to balance such outrage with actions. That's all. Nothing more to it. It is what it is. And what it is NOT, is me saying Wasse was removed for ignoring the path. I am going to have a bruise on my forehead for smacking it so much! To answer your question - NO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU READ IT WRONG!!!

For the last time, I was not included in the decision making process. How many times have I said that?? Why in God's green earth would I then post Wasse was removed because he ignored us. Can you not read into passive sarcasm?? Or is this walk on Shik's last nerve day today dry.gif
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Wasse
post Nov 16 2006, 07:53 PM
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I guess it never occured you to that I was sitting there afk (or perhaps reading the boards), and then gated out of the circle. (never noticing something else). As I have logged on about 4 times - I am assuming I can guess what time I "gated out there". Which is when I logged in the first time, and then went afk. Worldwalker had logged in, and told me to meet her at west gate, or something or the other. Yadada.

Anyway, in terms of not posting... yes, you are correct. I had not posted yet. I have somewhat of a flair for the flowery and poetic posts, and was planning on making a nice post at some point - saying hello, yet I wanted to make it a decent post. (more then, hi). Ironically enough since re-registering, that one night, I have been busy, and not yet had the chance.

Am I wrong to pin it on you? Perhaps. And if you are truely blame less in this, then you would have my apologies. Time will tell, I imagine.

Tyshar - long time no see, hope you are doing good. I too remember the pain we put up with Wildhair. I knew about it for a time past, though. I watched her betray friends of mine in game - most notably, Glade, and Mountie. All that went into trying to force Wildhair to step down, and pass on eldership. and to see this happen. It truely is saddening.

Funny enough, I was remembering a talk I had with Alexisa. Specifically, when my guideship was removed. Eldridge (not the current one, of course), had made a push to get inactive guides have their guide powers removed. Me of course - I was one of them. It took me a bit by suprised, and I had a talk with Alexisa. Among other things, I was assured of two things:

1 - if I ever returned to the game (and was playing full time again), guideship would be restored.
2 - my spot in the path, as well as others like me (old guides), would never be in question. Essentially we would never be "house cleaned".

Well, time goes on I guess. Just remember one thing. One day, that may be you. No one is immune to being backstabbed, and betrayed. (And no, I am not making a threat. Merely a friendly word of advice from someone who has played the game of politics in nexus, and has seen it happen to many)
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Ishman
post Nov 16 2006, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE(ShiKago @ Nov 16 2006, 08:53 PM) [snapback]18112[/snapback]

Are you kidding me? Please tell me you are joking! You saw that post as a motive?? Holy catz! I stated clearly that I understood why he was upset..sort of. Then stated obversations! Why do people only read what they want to read, then post?? GAH! Those are MY observations. I was trying to balance such outrage with actions. That's all. Nothing more to it. It is what it is. And what it is NOT, is me saying Wasse was removed for ignoring the path. I am going to have a bruise on my forehead for smacking it so much! To answer your question - NO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU READ IT WRONG!!!

For the last time, I was not included in the decision making process. How many times have I said that?? Why in God's green earth would I then post Wasse was removed because he ignored us. Can you not read into passive sarcasm?? Or is this walk on Shik's last nerve day today dry.gif


No reason to get all worked up. Honestly. Was that not a legitimate question? The way your post was worded certainly forwarded such as, at least in part, a motive. So, no, I wasn't joking.

EDIT: While you weren't a part of the decision making process, it's possible that many involved had that same mentality. That's all I argued.

Anger management. Calm down. Take a breath. Read the post for what it's worth. If something hits a wrong nerve, step away from the computer for a few minutes, have a pint, take a few drags, sit back down, re-read, reply. I've had to do it myself a few times around these forums. It works, though!
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Matsumotto
post Nov 16 2006, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE(ShiKago @ Nov 16 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]18045[/snapback]

NexusTK is a game. However, being in a subpath goes a step beyond that. Because we are not Jujaks, we do have have work to do. If we want improvements, we work for it. If we want additions to the circle, we work for it. If we want changes in graphics, we work for it. If we want new spells, we work for it. If we want new weapons, we work for it. Real life work inside a made up game. Real life time dedicated to a game.
Subpath people are different then those who play to play. We give up alot in real life for the demands of..yes .. a game. Because we enjoy it. We do it without griping most of the time. And yet no one points that out. How many of you will empathize with me when I rant about walkers on my list (back in the day) who pop in every couple months are very active for 3 days, demanding lessons, whining to other guides about unavailability, only for them to disappear again for months! And yet, for years we -->HAD <-- to take these types of people because the demand of numbers(quota) was being shoved down our throats.
With Kru, the restraints are removed. Now we can really enjoy having Shaman who WANT to be there, who want to contribute. We are free to pick and choose now without fear of falling under quota. Without that old phrase..If one subpath falls..they all fall. How refreshing it is to finally have a new start.
This is not a hate campaign, these are the winds blowing in an ever changing environment. Time to revamp and change. And ya know what, this is for you Worldwalker, I would love to go to 60 shaman and have them be the elitist snobs(and I mean that in a good way) that the public thought they were. Where those in the circle are so comfortable with small numbers that yes, just like in Jayde's day, guides can go off and have babies and come back. Or walkers can go graduate college or high school and come back and jump right in where they left off. Thats the security you get with smaller numbers. What security have we had with the numbers we have had to maintain??
LC<--who types for the toon of StriGoi on NexusTK


You explain that being part of a subpath takes up alot of IRL time. I agree completely. Think about all the irl time that Shamans such as Wasse, for example, who have been around forever have put into the path. The path wouldn't even be here for it to be "revamped" if it weren't for them. But still there isn't enough respect to keep them around? The reasoning around alot of these people getting kicked out of the path seems very biased (stupid personal issues?). Lowering the quota is fine but obviously alot of these people took being a shaman seriously if they stuck around as long as they have.

Also basic questions for everyone..
1. Is it allowed to just up and revamp a subpath after so much has been put into it by others for so many years? Also if there is new people in the path already that were just accepted in without even having to work hard for it, I am a little angry and disgusted. These new walkers are obviously not going to appreciate being a part of the path because they didn't even have to work hard to get into it.. and probably won't work hard to stay in it.
2. Can an elder be voted out or not??! If not, shouldn't there be some psychological requirements to being an elder so that they can not wake up one day and decide to kick everyone out of a subpath? As ally said, can there be some kind of mental stability test (lol)?
3. I just got distracted from the questions I was asking because I was picturing what the new shaman subpath is going to be like -- there was alot of "lolz" and "zomgz".


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Matsumotto
post Nov 16 2006, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE(Wasse @ Nov 16 2006, 07:53 PM) [snapback]18113[/snapback]

Funny enough, I was remembering a talk I had with Alexisa. Specifically, when my guideship was removed. Eldridge (not the current one, of course), had made a push to get inactive guides have their guide powers removed. Me of course - I was one of them. It took me a bit by suprised, and I had a talk with Alexisa. Among other things, I was assured of two things:

1 - if I ever returned to the game (and was playing full time again), guideship would be restored.
2 - my spot in the path, as well as others like me (old guides), would never be in question. Essentially we would never be "house cleaned".



QUOTE(Ishman @ Nov 16 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]18114[/snapback]

Wasse has a pretty strong argument here... These are clearly posted on the board in what we so affectionately call "Elder Spam."




If this is true (ex-guides will never be removed without a serious legitimate reason), something should really be done about it. eh?
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Erucolindo
post Nov 16 2006, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE(Wasse @ Nov 16 2006, 07:53 PM) [snapback]18113[/snapback]

2 - my spot in the path, as well as others like me (old guides), would never be in question. Essentially we would never be "house cleaned".


This was supposed to be the mentality all along. "Shaman guides or former guides, past and present" would also be exempt from needing path points - That was directly off the Shaman board, WHILE Widget was Elder., so new things come out, they don't even need to worry about earning more points for things. This is the way it should be, they did more than their fair share of work for the Subpath and if they took it upon themselves to "retire" if you will, and spend the rest of their days relaxing in the subpath circle, that is their right! The right that all the guides earned for their hard work.

So much for that, Widget shouldn't even bother making/posting rules if she isn't going to abide by them. At least don't give off a fake sense of empathy and sincerity if you really don't give a damn about anyone but your friends.


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Almekia
post Nov 16 2006, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(Tynan @ Nov 16 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]18083[/snapback]

Going back to what Worldwalker mentioned earlier, this is clearly an act to silence dissenters wrapped up in a housecleaning. Really, Widget seems to be playing the part of the Thought Police - 'Disagree with me, or show signs of thinking for yourself, and you are gone. Oh, and I might have my cronies take your heads!'



What's she gonna do next? Steal money from the guild and sell it on ebay?

Yeah yeah, many of you already know the whole story with Ilios but he is a very pathetic man, and it looks like Widget is his bride at the bottom of the totem pole. Why do these people make me looking forward to spitting on their graves? Selfishness, mainly.

We play a game, as stated above. However, one thing that people tend to forget is that all the people "Below" them are people too. They also play this game to have fun. Every avatar is someone who logs on, has fun, and logs off. Going to such an extent to ruin the fun of so many people for ANY reason is wrong. I don't care if these people all called her a b****!

Whoever that one person was who was defending the Shamans- you equally disgust me. You treat other people like they're your worker bees or something. Being in a subpath doesn't mean having an online job. It means roleplaying, and having fun. These people may not host 6 events a week, but they had characters in the Shaman path because they enjoyed it.

GUIDE is something that requires activity, perseverance, and dedication. Not Walker. I heard Do is a lot of work once you're in (Which is why I'm having Brandt go CR most likely) but this is absurd.

Some of us have jobs, husbands/wives, children, going to school, etc. Hell, some people I know even have D.) All the Above. If someone works from 9-5, gets home... cooks their family dinner, then logs on Nexus for the rest of the night (and is only on for about 2 hours a day during the week...) is that person not dedicated? How about someone who will log on late (after midnight) just to attend an event when they have to get up in less than 6 hours for work in the morning? Is that person not dedicated? According to her (and you,) yes- if they're not doing X/Y amount of events.

The only change that's going on in the Shamans is that it's becoming EXACTLY like the Merchants were 3 years ago. A guide circle full of friends of the Elder, and any who disagree (Beilek, for god's sake!) will get threatened to be kicked out of the path (not JUST guide.) All who defend them (Myself) got removed as well. Under Ilios, while a lot of additions were added, it is known as the steepest slope in the subpath's history. The Darkest Times. The worst years of the path.

I feel bad for what Shaman remain. If this continues to go the same direction it is headed... you're all in for one pathetic ride.




Edit: ANd I'd like to add that unfortunately, Nexon refused to get involved. Aparently being a complete jerk wasn't grounds for removal. So I would highly doubt Kru would do anything. IF they do, I'd be really impressed.


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~~~~~~~~~~~~I apologize for the "KKK" part of my name in my signature. Forgot it was there. It was satire, as in a thread a long time ago I had people claiming I was a racist for some really stupid reason. Considering nobody probably remembers that, I could see how it could come across the wrong way. It's gone now.~~~~~~~~~~~
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Worldwalker
post Nov 16 2006, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE(ShiKago @ Nov 16 2006, 07:13 PM) [snapback]18100[/snapback]
No one really wants to hear that this is a start of something new. And if it doesn't turn out exactly the way it's hoped for, we won't know for months so for now its all projecting.

Something new?

Might I point out, StriGoi, that the Elder's duty is to support and maintain the path. The Elder has neither the duty nor the right to turn a subpath into "something new", especially if the first step in doing so is to exile the many long-term members of that path who might, apparently, have objected to their path being turned into something else.

So, you're telling everyone to be silent as they watch the exile and humiliation of the people who built that subpath, the people who gave their time and their heart and soul to that subpath, so that at some vague time in the future the Shamans can be turned into something that isn't Shamans, but into "something new." And you're saying that the great Shamans of the past deserve no respect ... they do not deserve even to remain a part of the path ... if they're not there actively supporting this destruction of everything the Shamans are.

The Shamans are the keepers of history. Listen to my words, for I speak a teaching tale of the Shamans.

In the time of my father's father, there were two brothers named Chun and Pak. Their farms were side by side, Chun's farm to the north and Pak's farm to the south. Chun and Pak were much alike in learning and in wealth, but in one way they were very different: They never agreed on the best way to do things.

The father of Chun and Pak had helped them in many ways over the years. In time, he grew too old to farm his own land. The two brothers agreed to let him live with them in turn, first a year with Pak, then a year with Chun.

In the year that he lived with Pak, all was well. Pak, his wife, and his children treated him as an honored and respected member of the family. Grandfather sat in the corner by the fire, and sometimes told his grandchildren tales of the old days, when their father had been a little boy.

The next year he went to live with Chun. At first, Chun and his family also treated Grandfather with respect. However, Chun came to resent the love his children showed for the old man, and begrudge him his bench by the fire. One day, Chun said to his father, "You did not chop that wood, so what right do you have to sit by the fire?" He made his father sit in the coldest, darkest corner.

The father of Chun and Pak made no complaint, but merely asked Chun to let him have a blanket to keep the cold from his old bones. Grudgingly, Chun assented, and sent his son out to the barn to bring in the old, worn-out horse blanket.

When the son returned, he tore the blanket in half and offered one half to his grandfather, carefully folding up the other half and setting it aside. Chun asked his son why he did such a thing.

"The other half is for you, for when you become old."

Chun's heart was shamed by these words, and he restored his aged father to his place by the fire in all honor.


Hear these words and learn, for I have spoken a teaching tale of the Shamans.

-- Worldwalker


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Youji
post Nov 16 2006, 08:52 PM
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I don't know what to say about all this...

I've been following the situation very closely over the past few days. As a close friend of MANY of those who were cursed/exiled (Tedi, Jolie, Sebelle, JerzeyKat) and a few of the paths current guides/walkers (BeffyCabeza, Hooje, Ishida), I *have* come to realize that the decisions Widget is making are RUINING the fun of Nexus. She is dividing the roleplay community CLEAN in two, making it impossible to persue our previous interactions with each other and maintain a (relatively) healthy roleplay community.

I have sent Widget 2 extremely rational, productive and respectful letters regarding this issue and have yet to receive a reply. The guides have been ordered to keep this whole situation hush hush and refuse to divulge the reasons for cursing Jolie and others, as well as the reasons for this "path sweep" they seem to be preforming.

I've spoken to pretty much everyone involved and NO ONE can give me or anyone else a reason as to why this is happening.

Widget is RUINING Nexus. For EVERYONE. Plain and simple.

I mean, come on...... JERZEYKAT?! [Content removed], please. That's the stupidest [Content removed] I've ever heard.
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AllyGator
post Nov 16 2006, 08:55 PM
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Sitting by the fire, listening to my sister recount a tale everyone should learn. Yes shaman are masters of lore, yet how can some forget their very nature?


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Wasse
post Nov 16 2006, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE(AllyGator @ Nov 16 2006, 08:55 PM) [snapback]18123[/snapback]

Sitting by the fire, listening to my sister recount a tale everyone should learn. Yes shaman are masters of lore, yet how can some forget their very nature?


perhaps the problem is they never knew there nature to begin with?
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Almekia
post Nov 16 2006, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(Wasse @ Nov 16 2006, 09:03 PM) [snapback]18125[/snapback]

perhaps the problem is they never knew there nature to begin with?


It's sad for the path as I do know many people who see it (or who have been in it) who saw it was a being dark, emo, and evil path. While this couldn't be farther from the truth, it makes sense why they would want to be really hard on members, especially those who are new.

Though I never thought it possible for someone to achieve Elder without knowing what the path was even about. I like to draw a personal note to the dispute that has been going on between ec and I regarding the Merchants. When he was elder, he had his own view of the path. Vaughn now has his own. Were either wrong? No. But they both pull in different directions.

Shaman are one of the few subpaths I haven't been a part of at one point, but perhaps this can be seen as a difference in opinions of the origins of the path.


Then again, if I hear "we only want dedicated people" again, I will seriously punch someone. (It's not just the Shaman.)


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[Poet Almekia]~[Merchant Elani]~~~[Warrior Brandt]
~~~~~~~~~~~~I apologize for the "KKK" part of my name in my signature. Forgot it was there. It was satire, as in a thread a long time ago I had people claiming I was a racist for some really stupid reason. Considering nobody probably remembers that, I could see how it could come across the wrong way. It's gone now.~~~~~~~~~~~
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Wasse
post Nov 16 2006, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE(Almekia @ Nov 16 2006, 09:07 PM) [snapback]18126[/snapback]

It's sad for the path as I do know many people who see it (or who have been in it) who saw it was a being dark, emo, and evil path. While this couldn't be farther from the truth, it makes sense why they would want to be really hard on members, especially those who are new.

Though I never thought it possible for someone to achieve Elder without knowing what the path was even about. I like to draw a personal note to the dispute that has been going on between ec and I regarding the Merchants. When he was elder, he had his own view of the path. Vaughn now has his own. Were either wrong? No. But they both pull in different directions.

Shaman are one of the few subpaths I haven't been a part of at one point, but perhaps this can be seen as a difference in opinions of the origins of the path.
Then again, if I hear "we only want dedicated people" again, I will seriously punch someone. (It's not just the Shaman.)


I imagine one of the reasons for this is some of the more well known past shaman roleplayers, were in part, evil.

Crovax, WarX, to name a couple. As well as Jayde's piece with the darkstaff shard in the event. (I do not recall if her entire rp was evil, it has been far too long).

And, my own, well, I'm not really sure I would classify as evil, any more then you would consider any person of power evil smile.gif.

On the flip side you had people like Mythril, who to be honest, I don't think had an evil bone in her body!
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Vini
post Nov 16 2006, 09:14 PM
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wow, what a hot topic, just one of day of existance and almost 100 replies to it already. I don't have time to read it all, but from what I understand people are complaining that some really old shamans, icons of the path who have given their life and time to make this path be what it is today, were removed with no respect at all?
Also from what I understood some inactive ones stayed and some really loyal ones are gone....oh gosh.
I just wonder where is Widget to explain herself in times like this. It's just too easy do to such stuff and hide, I think community deserves an explanation, I think these 92 shamans do at least.


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koinu
post Nov 16 2006, 09:19 PM
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Hmmm.. I'm sure there's an explanation but whatever the elder decides is right must be right? there's a reason why things happen.. its not like the elder was angry one day and was like "Today the spirits don't talk to me.. somethings wrong with my family... I must act fast and quickly fix this problem! *boots the bad shamans and shamans walked in* yeah I don't think that happened =p I think everyone should take the matter lightly...


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Gosamer
post Nov 16 2006, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE(koinu @ Nov 16 2006, 09:19 PM) [snapback]18129[/snapback]

Hmmm.. I'm sure there's an explanation but whatever the elder decides is right must be right? there's a reason why things happen.. its not like the elder was angry one day and was like "Today the spirits don't talk to me.. somethings wrong with my family... I must act fast and quickly fix this problem! *boots the bad shamans and shamans walked in* yeah I don't think that happened =p I think everyone should take the matter lightly...



More like... today I am irritated and I don't like someone how about I kick all who are close, all who can oppose me, any that could make my life harder, and kick a couple more to make it look like I was doing something else instead...

But you were close... her's a cookie for a nice try. dry.gif
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koinu
post Nov 16 2006, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE(Gosamer @ Nov 16 2006, 09:22 PM) [snapback]18130[/snapback]

More like... today I am irritated and I don't like someone how about I kick all who are close and kick a couple more to make it look like I was doing something else instead... But you were close... her's a cookie for a nice try. dry.gif



Hmmm I highly doubt thats whats going on. if it was... why didn't she kick all shamans you know? pull a Shadow Sub-path? The elder of that path kicked everyone until there was no more shadow.


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Gosamer
post Nov 16 2006, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE(koinu @ Nov 16 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]18131[/snapback]

Hmmm I highly doubt thats whats going on. if it was... why didn't she kick all shamans you know? pull a Shadow Sub-path? The elder of that path kicked everyone until there was no more shadow.


because if she did it all at once and only left her friends the path would fall under quota... way under quota... heh.

Seriously though I am sure shes not goign for a full disband.. just a nice way to make other people's life hell.
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Erucolindo
post Nov 16 2006, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE(koinu @ Nov 16 2006, 09:19 PM) [snapback]18129[/snapback]

yeah I don't think that happened =p I think everyone should take the matter lightly...



While your attempt to lighten the mood is appreciated, I'm going to have to say that unfortunately, you just aren't really aware of what is going on here. The people most unjustly removed are keeping their thoughts private for now until the proper avenues are explored, but I assure you, this was nothing but malicious.


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Erucolindo Solinarus
Ambassador of the Buyan Imperial Army

"From the dawn of our species, Man has been blessed with curiosity. Our most precious gift, without exception, is the desire to know more - to look beyond what is accepted as the truth and to imagine what is possible."


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Ishman
post Nov 16 2006, 09:30 PM
Post #100


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QUOTE(koinu @ Nov 16 2006, 10:19 PM) [snapback]18129[/snapback]

Hmmm.. I'm sure there's an explanation but whatever the elder decides is right must be right? there's a reason why things happen.. its not like the elder was angry one day and was like "Today the spirits don't talk to me.. somethings wrong with my family... I must act fast and quickly fix this problem! *boots the bad shamans and shamans walked in* yeah I don't think that happened =p I think everyone should take the matter lightly...


While this person was brought to this position of honor by those who preceded him, recall that she and all other elders are still human. I like to gather all of the facts before I choose a side to stand on, but I think to say that "all elders' decisions are correct because of their position" is false.

As with all people who represent a group, there will be those who agree and those who disagree. There will be those who suffer at the hands of that person's decision. Whether such suffering was justified is left to the opinions of the people who were involved.

I've stated my opinion as the issue stands, but as more information comes to light, it may change. It may not. But no. Elders, too, are human and are therefore imperfect.
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