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> Archon Jailing ( Yes/no ? )
Alston
post Nov 10 2009, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Ganjakahn @ Nov 10 2009, 06:13 PM) *
God damn DM, stop making long ass posts everytime you post.

Umm, first off where were you when I've been posting?

Secondly... no one's forcing you to read it. tongue.gif Go hire somebody to news-ticker his posts for ya tongue.gif

QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 10 2009, 06:08 PM) *
In summary is I do not believe KRU is operating their company to the highest standard that they could be, and if they had better hiring practices they would have more customers and therefore make more money (because of good word of mouth from the playerbase and the larger size of this playerbase, rather than the primarily negative word of mouth from a small playerbase). KRU should update their hiring standards for the 21st century.

This isn't 1995 where everyone is simply amazed to see graphical MUDs. They need to perform a major content update that will make Nexus more competitive with other online games and to do this they need to hire and train employees to be able to create that new content. They will never create the needed content the way they are doing it now.

Quick note: I said they aren't GMs specifically because they're not paid.

Anyway, unless someone wants to invest heavily in Kru, I doubt Kru will ever be able to afford hiring more people or implementing newer technologies into the game. I definately know the game's code is more hacked up than most people think (it was designed originally in korea tongue.gif )

21st century market, and Kru has 20th century funding. tongue.gif


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darkmaverick
post Nov 10 2009, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (Alston @ Nov 10 2009, 09:48 PM) *
Quick note: I said they aren't GMs specifically because they're not paid.

Anyway, unless someone wants to invest heavily in Kru, I doubt Kru will ever be able to afford hiring more people or implementing newer technologies into the game. I definately know the game's code is more hacked up than most people think (it was designed originally in korea tongue.gif )

21st century market, and Kru has 20th century funding. tongue.gif


I don't believe KRU is struggling for cash. Struggling companies don't start picking up licenses for new games. KRU's solution seems to be to release games they think will have broader appeal rather than invest more into their existing lineup, transforming them so they have broader appeal.


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Doctor
post Nov 10 2009, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 10 2009, 06:17 PM) *
The public education system.

Your tax dollars at work!

Not even Steven Hawking would want to read your long posts. In college or upper level school they teach you not to fluff, to condense your argument or essay as it may be into only what needs to be said. What you do is post to see yourself post, and say more than needs to be said to get the same message across; and you'll probably say "I need to explain it in detail", or "you're just another person who doesn't want to read a long post" but the fact remains, it's just annoying jumble of condensed garbage.

Not only does this prove that you clearly have not had any upper education, unless you were a math major or something, but that you are a total asshat.

See what I did there?

Thesis.
Proof.
Proof against argument.
Conclusion.

In 5 sentences. Get to work DM.

Oh and on topic, Archons are nothing but an unprofessional distraction that are too unrestricted and too easily manipulated for personal gain to have any place in a game where players have control over other players already, if they were removed at least it would give players a little less control.


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Alston
post Nov 11 2009, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 10 2009, 07:41 PM) *
I don't believe KRU is struggling for cash. Struggling companies don't start picking up licenses for new games. KRU's solution seems to be to release games they think will have broader appeal rather than invest more into their existing lineup, transforming them so they have broader appeal.

Trust me, if they were in a better financial position, they'd build much better games and not ride the coat-tails of three franchises they've run since the beginning of those games' conception in America.

Not to say they're failing. Just saying they're not so well funded that they can pay for more than one GM a game (that's assuming one GM isn't running all three+the beta tongue.gif ).

QUOTE (Doctor @ Nov 10 2009, 07:59 PM) *
Not even Steven Hawking would want to read your long posts. In college or upper level school they teach you not to fluff, to condense your argument or essay as it may be into only what needs to be said. What you do is post to see yourself post, and say more than needs to be said to get the same message across; and you'll probably say "I need to explain it in detail", or "you're just another person who doesn't want to read a long post" but the fact remains, it's just annoying jumble of condensed garbage.

Sounds like any normal news post.

QUOTE
Not only does this prove that you clearly have not had any upper education, unless you were a math major or something, but that you are a total asshat.

See what I did there?

Thesis.
Proof.
Proof against argument.

Your proof is lacking.

QUOTE
Conclusion.

In 5 sentences. Get to work DM.


Learn to speed-read. It's annoying when people complain about "long posts." There's a PGDN key, people. Use it. Let the man speak his mind (even if, occasionally, he makes a fool of himself). No one said you had to listen.

QUOTE
Oh and on topic, Archons are nothing but an unprofessional distraction that are too unrestricted and too easily manipulated for personal gain to have any place in a game where players have control over other players already, if they were removed at least it would give players a little less control.

And a lot less organization, events, structure, accountability, and... well... the game would be even more boring than it is now.

QUOTE (Ganjakahn @ Nov 10 2009, 08:31 PM) *
i didnt even read it. i skip by big posts lol

YOU LIE! laugh.gif


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AceoStar
post Nov 11 2009, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE
Trust me, if they were in a better financial position, they'd build much better games and not ride the coat-tails of three franchises they've run since the beginning of those games' conception in America.


like uh, blowing tons of cash on RoboSmasher? Im sure it wasnt cheap to get involved in that project tongue.gif


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Alston
post Nov 11 2009, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (AceoStar @ Nov 11 2009, 01:12 PM) *
like uh, blowing tons of cash on RoboSmasher? Im sure it wasnt cheap to get involved in that project tongue.gif

We'll see how that turns out.


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AceoStar
post Nov 11 2009, 04:54 PM
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Oh, Im sure it wont turn out well, but the money is already spent at this point. tongue.gif


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darkmaverick
post Nov 11 2009, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor @ Nov 10 2009, 11:59 PM) *
Oh and on topic, Archons are nothing but an unprofessional distraction that are too unrestricted and too easily manipulated for personal gain to have any place in a game where players have control over other players already, if they were removed at least it would give players a little less control.


Let's explore the difference between how I present my arguments and how you present your arguments, using the above as an example.

Your argument is nothing but a series of declarations resulting in a conclusion, but no where in your declarations did indicate that you used logic to form your conclusions. You left out any details on how you formed your opinion. I can only imagine that you assumed everyone reading your opinion could figure out where your opinions came from, perhaps through the use of psychic powers such as telepathy.

My argument expresses my opinion in a series of declarations followed up with hypothetical situations that demonstrate the logical consequences of my declarations. I wrote my opinion in a way that demonstrated how I arrived at my conclusions because I assume those reading my post do not have superpowers that allow them to read my mind.

As far as redundancy in anything I've written, the reason is due to the importance of repetition in communicating technical ideas. Sometimes you have to explain something to a person ten different ways until they actually understand the whole idea. What you think you've learned in (probably) creative writing classes only applies to fictional literature; it does not apply to speeches, technical manuals or prose. This is because absolute clarification of the communicated idea is desired whereas in fiction the reader is allowed freedom to interpret the material in differing ways (i.e. use their imagination to see things differently than someone else does).

If you learned otherwise from a teacher, I would like to know what their credentials are and how successful they were outside of an academic setting. In particular when was the last time they wrote a speech for a politician. Listen to one sometime and pay attention; there is constant repetition of the same idea.

In summary, you are a poorer communicator than I.

QUOTE (AceoStar @ Nov 11 2009, 05:12 PM) *
like uh, blowing tons of cash on RoboSmasher? Im sure it wasnt cheap to get involved in that project tongue.gif


Regional Licenses for MMORPGs are expensive. Like tens of thousands of dollars expensive. It is possible the upfront costs of licensing could come from investment money, but it's extremely unlikely someone would invest into a company that is not making money from its existing games. Investors want to see a proven track record because that indicates they will make money from the investment. Either way, picking up new licenses shows KRU is doing good, unless everyone is just insane and spending money they don't have (extremely unlikely given the number of years the company has been around).

Also, license holders usually do some research into the well being of the prospective licensee. If KRU was doing poorly, they wouldn't choose them to be their North American license holder because if KRU goes under that represents lost revenue to the license holder.


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AceoStar
post Nov 12 2009, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Nov 11 2009, 10:29 PM) *
Regional Licenses for MMORPGs are expensive. Like tens of thousands of dollars expensive. It is possible the upfront costs of licensing could come from investment money, but it's extremely unlikely someone would invest into a company that is not making money from its existing games. Investors want to see a proven track record because that indicates they will make money from the investment. Either way, picking up new licenses shows KRU is doing good, unless everyone is just insane and spending money they don't have (extremely unlikely given the number of years the company has been around).

Also, license holders usually do some research into the well being of the prospective licensee. If KRU was doing poorly, they wouldn't choose them to be their North American license holder because if KRU goes under that represents lost revenue to the license holder.


Not sure if that's trying to refute what I said, but its pretty much the same idea. Thier ability to get into RS showed that they were making money, will RS be enough to screw all that up? Probably tongue.gif


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Alston
post Nov 12 2009, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (AceoStar @ Nov 12 2009, 05:29 AM) *
Not sure if that's trying to refute what I said, but its pretty much the same idea. Thier ability to get into RS showed that they were making money, will RS be enough to screw all that up? Probably tongue.gif

I think he was just expanding on what you said.

Anyway, it wouldn't be the first time Kru put all its eggs in a basket.


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ToRaToRa
post Nov 12 2009, 04:49 PM
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Board updated.

As it is for now, we agree that even though the system is flawed. But Archons are certainly needed to keep this game going.
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darkmaverick
post Nov 12 2009, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (MainAttraction @ Oct 31 2009, 06:15 PM) *
Successful games like WOW, while they have different game infrastructure, seem to do well without them. Archons not only have the ability to be highly corrupt as pointed out earliar or extremely biased because of the fact that they are volunteers, but they also take away from the fun possibilities that the game was intended for.


Blizzard does in fact have Archon-like individuals working for them. Every time you open a ticket for customer support, you encounter one. There is also the forum managers.

The thing is that all of these individuals are paid employees of Blizzard. They have all went through a company training program and they work in the Blizzard offices.

QUOTE (AceoStar @ Nov 12 2009, 08:29 AM) *
Not sure if that's trying to refute what I said, but its pretty much the same idea.


I was backing you up tongue.gif


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Muckish
post Nov 15 2009, 05:41 PM
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First, I think we need Archons and I think they need to be secret characters because the other routes posess too many other problems.

But, without straying too far from the issue at hand, I think there is -always- a problem with Archon jailings. Archons are not held to the same standards as the player-trained judges. They do not have to account for themselves to the Head Judge nor do they have to present their actions to the public on the justice board. Notice that Judges are required to tell the public: what the defendant was accused of, what evidence was presented and why they reached the final decision. Moreover, the Head Judge can and often does review the case of a player-run judge -- which I believe is a huge reason why player-run judges abide by the rules set before them.

I am sure I can speak for all of the judges who have served under Teragg, that today Judges are very careful in making sure that the evidence provided is very clear and that they follow the letter of the law BECAUSE Teragg often reviews their cases AT RANDOM and following requests from the defendants or defendants friends. If anything Judges may be a bit too careful because they are worried about crossing that line and this is a very NECESSARY part of a good justice system. Teragg is very good at judicial oversight. Thus, I think, while Vini and now Teragg have done an -excellent- job at cleaning up the justice system, Archon jailings continue to tarnish the work that they have done and continue to do.

Archons should not have the ability to jail players - EVER. I hate the fact that players who are jailed by an Archon do not have the SAME rights as those who are jailed by a judge. After all Justice MUST be -fair- and fairness requires that everyone is treated the same!


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ToRaToRa
post Nov 15 2009, 09:43 PM
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Muckish,

I totally agree with your statement. I couldn't find anything to complain about the current judges. Afterall they are improving by learning and listening to the community. What about archons? They hide their face in you know who's ass, after they found guilty jailing wrong person.

I still have a strong belief that Supadupaman was involving in the recent jailings and the race bugs. He has been keeping low profile recently by not attending PK or sire that much , and can't find any single post from his main char in RT either. But I am pretty sure, given by his everlasting SHOW OFF attitude, he probably can't stop posting some rubbish in RT with his alts. I say he must have make another deal with KRU by keeping low profile this time. He will get all his items back in no time.
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Muckish
post Feb 8 2010, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (ToRaToRa @ Oct 30 2009, 01:35 PM) *
Do you think its fair for the players to be jailed without trial?
Do you think its fair for the player for no able to defense themselves?



Do you think its fair for the players to be jailed without trial? NO
Do you think its fair for the player for no able to defense themselves? NO

I think if an Archon wishes to jail someone they should be required to contact a Judge and present them with the evidence allowing NOT ONLY for a defense on the part of the defendant, put permitting the Head Judge to REVIEW and even OVERTURN the judgement pending a review.

I don't understand how anyone could condone justice dealt by players who (by the necessity of their position) walk around with a paper bag over their head so that we don't know who they are.

I believe Archons should remain anonymous -- however, providing they are anonymous, they should not have the power to jail players. All players deserve -fair- treatment and this requires that all treatment is equal. The only way to accomplish this is for all players to plead their case before a player judge which affords them the right to appeal.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work that many archons strive to do. And they are often under appreciated. However, I still believe it is inappropriate for them to conduct jailings.




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darkmaverick
post Feb 8 2010, 01:25 PM
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I don't believe any player should have jail powers.

Archons are still players.


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AllyGator
post Feb 8 2010, 07:47 PM
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Archons are trained as judges.


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Brant
post Feb 8 2010, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (AllyGator @ Feb 8 2010, 06:47 PM) *
Archons are trained as judges.


You can't fix stupid.

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Doctor
post Feb 8 2010, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (Brant @ Feb 8 2010, 04:51 PM) *
You can't fix powertrip.

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Buddy
post Feb 8 2010, 08:42 PM
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as far as I know, Archons only currently jail for offenses they witness.

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