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> Chongun, A message from Liadriel
AceoStar
post Jan 6 2009, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE
Anyway, who's to say Liadriel was actually Pieminster?

That assumption was based on the fact that the same youtube user uploaded both of those videos. I guess it could be said that Liadrel recorded it and gave it to pie, but the whole "oh how so cute" thing really points to pie.

I'd say that him attempting to essentially steal karma, money, and time from about 230 players, as well as take mugs time to fix it is a banworthy offense, videos aside.


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Winder
post Jan 6 2009, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (BeffyCabeza @ Jan 6 2009, 12:24 PM) *
You have no clue how many times I busted his ass and yelled at him for this Brant. He'll probably come on here and defend himself. But letting a banned Guide on the PATH bank toon? How the hell do you ignore that rule? (And Winder don't even try to say you didn't know, I'll pull up the saved conversation smartie.)

I personally think that the Elder rules SHOULD be posted on each Subpath board, so that there is some sort of checks and balance. It's hard to go 'Yah know I think they shouldn't do this' when walkers don't know the rules their Elders have to follow. And being a former Elder, no I'm not going to argue 'Well that should be private' The hell it should. Walkers should know what rights they have, and should be able to call out their Elders ON STUPID things they do. Instead of complaining to a guide who does jack squat about it. I still give Elderly advice to some of the current Elders. For the most post I think my paranoia kept anything I did inside the Rules.

So many new rules get put on Elders all the time, because of idiots that -can't- follow the rules. Just friggin remove 'em if they can't play by the rules. Quit bending the rules and CHANGING them, because you like the person.


[Edit] Awww I feel special he highlighted one of my posts. tongue.gif The only thing I puckered at were some personal posts up there about things going on in my IRL. Was more letting people know what was going on, that I didn't want half the world to know.

And from my time in Chongun, I never ever would have expected Liadriel to go off the deep end like this. He was very quiet, very well respected, and kept mainly to himself. Turning into a tyrant of sorts, was I think something NONE of us expected. Yes there were small warning signs (Like the hostile take over/burning creed) but that was done AFTER he was made Elder, not before. The other warning signs, people would have had to pay serious attention to, to even notice. (Like his editting of NexusWiki on Chonguns, yeup DM that wasn't you tongue.gif)


Thank you Beffy, at least this was fun to read, I always feel disappointed when I see another thread hijacked by SilentS and DarkMaverick =P.

Besides, Orion already had access to that bank character before he was banned. I just forgot to take it away. Wouldn't it be easier to use the fact I broke elder rules by making Orion elder? There's no denying that one!

Perhaps you can post that conversation on youtube like a certain other person ^^.

Oh, and as an added bonus, Orion would not try to dismiss the entire barbarian path, guarenteed or your money back! lol.


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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 8 2010, 03:29 AM) *
Well, I guess I'm wrong then.
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BeffyCabeza
post Jan 6 2009, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Winder @ Jan 6 2009, 12:07 PM) *
Thank you Beffy, at least this was fun to read, I always feel disappointed when I see another thread hijacked by SilentS and DarkMaverick =P.

Besides, Orion already had access to that bank character before he was banned. I just forgot to take it away. Wouldn't it be easier to use the fact I broke elder rules by making Orion elder? There's no denying that one!

Perhaps you can post that conversation on youtube like a certain other person ^^.

Oh, and as an added bonus, Orion would not try to dismiss the entire barbarian path, guarenteed or your money back! lol.



I try to ignore the fact you broke that last one. Still can't believe you did that. And ROFL, no I don't post things on youtube. More like IM you with the convo, no need to post it where everyone can see it tongue.gif

I don't think anyone would be so dumb as to try to dismiss the entire Barbarian path, granted there's quite a few that should be tongue.gif


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Winder
post Jan 6 2009, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (BeffyCabeza @ Jan 6 2009, 02:09 PM) *
I try to ignore the fact you broke that last one. Still can't believe you did that. And ROFL, no I don't post things on youtube. More like IM you with the convo, no need to post it where everyone can see it tongue.gif

I don't think anyone would be so dumb as to try to dismiss the entire Barbarian path, granted there's quite a few that should be tongue.gif


I love you too Beffy. Finally a thread hijacked by Winder & Beffy!.

Oh and please feel free to IM me at anytime <3.


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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Aug 8 2010, 03:29 AM) *
Well, I guess I'm wrong then.
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darkmaverick
post Jan 6 2009, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (BeffyCabeza @ Jan 6 2009, 11:24 AM) *
And from my time in Chongun, I never ever would have expected Liadriel to go off the deep end like this. He was very quiet, very well respected, and kept mainly to himself. Turning into a tyrant of sorts, was I think something NONE of us expected. Yes there were small warning signs (Like the hostile take over/burning creed) but that was done AFTER he was made Elder, not before. The other warning signs, people would have had to pay serious attention to, to even notice. (Like his editting of NexusWiki on Chonguns, yeup DM that wasn't you tongue.gif)


http://www.nexuswiki.com/w/index.php?title...;action=history

Please point to me on this page where Liadriel made edits, because I just don't see it. I have no idea what you are talking about really, unless you were saying I made some sort of edits to the pages-- which I have, but only to add tags.

I do agree that (I hope) no one expected him to go bat[Content removed] like this, but I am still left to wonder why it was deemed a good idea to make Liadriel Elder over others, especially when he wanted to do the creed burning. Apparently Silent knew he was going to do that before he made him Elder.

My only concern about Heira is that, last I knew, we do not completely agree on how much of the strict rules of the path need relaxing (I favor a greater relaxing of the rules, especially concerning the acquisition of items like the sword), but I do believe her heart is in the right place. Again, I could be mistaken but I hope I am not.


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Damyan
post Jan 6 2009, 01:54 PM
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This entire situation is screwed up. I will admit, there is always some type of elitism when you're running something on your own. You want to let those people you trust and have a good relationship with help you do things.

Unfortunately, it's why great people like Vini, etc. were not made guides until recently. Even though you may have a great mind with many great ideas, unless you put aside, shut up, and do what you're told, you're most likely not going anywhere in Nexus.

I quit because I can no longer look at that path and see it as it was, and I don't believe it will ever be the same, nor any better. There will always be a residual animosity lingering amongst groups unless people leave or get booted. No matter who becomes elder, whether it be Heira or SilentS, things will be strict and every t will be crossed and every i will be dotted.

The path will not change for the better. It will linger and stagnate. Just like Nexus unfortunately.

Liadriel tried to make things easier for everyone, he really did. In the end, his methods were stupid, and he should have consulted with the path before making radical changes. If he had done that, I think we would be in a very different situation right now. But then again it's hard to make changes when someone is badgering you day in and day out about what you are doing is wrong and corrupt.

Change will never come to Nexus because there are too many people comfortable with their positions of power. In the end, those with power will do what they need to to stay in power. I think half the people of Nexus could leave Nexus complaining to kru about the problems, but it won't change anything.

Good bye Nexus of yesterday. Good bye Nexus of role-playing. Good bye Nexus that I have grown to love, for it no longer exists.


I'm 21 years old, having played Nexus since I was 11. I've grown up on this game. Tried to do a lot, but in the end, I feel like I did nothing.


P.S. - I quit the Chongun because it was the only way the archons would intervene and remove Liadriel. He -was- a good guy, but power changed him, like it
often does to people who take over subpaths. I agreed with his ideas, not his methods. And now none of his ideas will be implemented. Things will still
be as elitist as ever. People will still claim you need to work your heart and soul out for a sword made of pixels that shouldn't matter to those at the top.
Players will still be told they cannot gain access to what a path is there for, which is fun.


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Falaris
post Jan 6 2009, 02:21 PM
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Just to comment on "power changing people," I think sometimes when you are put in power and you have been around so long, you think you know best. I know I certainly did after having been a Merchant so long and felt because I was therefore "enlightened" that I could change the path's direction as I please and Merchants would be better for it whether they knew that or not. While I still feel my ideas regarding what the path should be are more true to the original intentions and I'm disgusted by how they are pushovers, if that is what the majority of the path wants then I'd rather leave and go to a place that fit my ideals more (which is why I left to join Spies who have that edgier roleplay). I left Spies to return to Merchants only once I was done with trying to roleplay as I simply knew more people in Merchants and wanted to play just to hang out with some friends.

Point being, its premature to just say "Oh he got overtaken with power." Perhaps it wasn't so much of a powertrip moreso that he just thought he had the best idea for everyone and they would all eventually come around?

Regardless of the methods, I agree with the ideals he was going for if he truly wanted to make the subpath more open and release it from the strict rules of elitism which have plagued subpaths for years. I agree wholeheartedly with these ideals, in that subpaths SHOULD be an accomplishment, but should not be made into needing to be someone's life calling to join one. There is no harm in letting more people be walkers, because the community has changed. Perhaps in the old days when most people playing were more serious about it that would have been one thing, but at this stage why not just let everyone have some fun?


-Falaris


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darkmaverick
post Jan 6 2009, 02:38 PM
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I would like to believe he really did want to end the elitism and do good for the path.

Unfortunately, that he made those videos and then tried to disband the path seems to imply there was something more going on in his head than just improving the path and wanting to make things better for everyone in it.

Also, pretty sure Pie was Liadriel since he is posting on his video account about why he did what he did as Elder.


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Falaris
post Jan 6 2009, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jan 6 2009, 01:38 PM) *
I would like to believe he really did want to end the elitism and do good for the path.

Unfortunately, that he made those videos and then tried to disband the path seems to imply there was something more going on in his head than just improving the path and wanting to make things better for everyone in it.

Also, pretty sure Pie was Liadriel since he is posting on his video account about why he did what he did as Elder.


Let's face it, KRU would never allow an elder to actually do that and just let the game go on minus a subpath. While it would take them a day or two to restore everyone, I am sure Liadriel didn't actually sit there and think "I'll show them!" as if him kicking everyone out would last and be more than a minor irritant to the people who couldn't access the circle for a few days.

I think he just felt like going out with a bang. I don't think we need to examine his mental health to realize he was just having some final fun messing with everyone as payback for getting kicked out. How mature it was or not is really not the point. This is a game and he kicked everyone out similar to how someone might make a scene and throw everything off their desk onto the floor after hearing they just got laid off. Granted I'm not one of the Chonguns who couldn't access their circle for a day or two, but I find the whole thing really funny and amusing because Nexus is not worth taking this seriously, and that I know people got upset over those videos makes it even funnier because there are still those who do consider it so important as if Nexus is real life. Some people really need to step away from their keyboards and chill out for awhile.

Hell, if I was so inclined to waste a few hours, I'd go through all my screenshots looking for some of the juicy ones and post them myself too. Its really not worth the effort though since I'd be sifting through thousands of screenshots.


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SilentS
post Jan 6 2009, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (darkmaverick @ Jan 6 2009, 06:23 AM) *
Also, I learned the other day SilentS was apparently aware Liadriel wanted to have his assumption of power, in "roleplay", as a violent overthrowing of SilentS where he burned the Creed like it was some sort of Cultural Revolution, which deeply unsettles me because that would be a sign to me the guy was wanting to cause a scene right off the bat. I'm not entirely against the Creed being changed, but I am against changes happening which the path has no input on at all, especially something as major as that.
That is what HE wanted to do. I told him I would not do it, and even stated that it was not a good idea. He stated it AFTER he got Elder. He did hint on other things to do beforehand, but nothing like the hostile takeover he did try after the fact.

QUOTE
I was initially under the impression more discussion was taking place about how the path was going to change, but it seemed to have been a farce. You can be sure if Liadriel was on here defending his actions I would be directing critical posts toward him as well, but it is SilentS on here trying to act as if he made the best decision he could when I really do not agree with that.
I would say the sky is blue and you would still no agree with me. That is how far this stupid squabble has gone. I do not try to justify what Liadriel did. Just state what he did do, as opposed to what he said he would do. However, at the time I stepped down, Liadriel WAS the best choice, out of all things considering. Just too bad it was all a mask in the end.

QUOTE
Also, for some perspective, a similar situation once occurred in the Chonguns when Taijin stepped down to Vlad. Vlad was not the favored choice of the path and ultimately caused a split in the path for his actions and how he tried to force a shift in lore without acknowledging anyone's input. He had personal vendettas he wanted to carry out, I mean he kicked me out of the path even though he had pledged to Taijin he would not do so as that had been a concern I had raised to Taijin when he announced Vlad to be Elder.

Taijin, ultimately, made a terrible mistake and misjudged Vlad. When Taijin later returned and discovered Vlad's actions, the first thing he did was apologize for his error in choosing Vlad despite the concerns of others and acknowledged he could have made a wiser decision because there was warning flags he ignored (namely, Vlad's vendetta against me and how he wanted me out of the path). There was no "he wasn't like this when he was a Guide" excuses. Taijin was also not in a situation where he had been Elder for many years and could have had time to develop potential candidates for Elder, unlike SilentS who just seems to have made a whimsical choice.
The Taijin/Vlad issues differ than what took place with myself to Liadriel. Liadriel was a 6 year guide. 5 of those years as a Regent. He actually earned his way up. The only thing similar in all of this, is that I misjudged Liadriel. Hell most of the people in the path did. Never once was there any indication he would try and destroy the path. There was no "whimsical choice" in this matter.

QUOTE
It may seem I have a vendetta against SilentS, as if I want him out of the path or something, but that is not true at all. I only believe he has brought the path as far as he is going to be able to take it because he is unwilling to be an active leader, and not just a figurehead.
Nice claim. Keep telling yourself that.

QUOTE
I was never against the quota; I was against how subpaths chose to handle it, and how ultimately Eldridge did not hold up his end of the bargain. It was not a bad idea to try to get more people into subpaths, because I have always been of the belief anyone that would like to be apart of a subpath should have an opportunity to do so.
This part I will agree on for the most part. But the whole issue was mishandled by both sides at the time. Todays rules are much more relaxed for both parties on the quota front. They are not great, but they are better.

QUOTE
I'm fairly sure those rules are not talking about people who had already been members of the path before. It's not a "free ride" to add back former Elders and Guides when they return to the game. I don't consider it a "free ride" to add back former Walkers either.
Those rules are ment for ALL who enter the path. Despite if they have been in before or not.

QUOTE
I don't recall only complaining about my own experiences. I've actually been complaining about my experiences and your experiences, as well as those of other former Chonguns (and new ones too) who had the same sort of nonsense happen to them. Just because I don't list their names off doesn't mean I am not thinking about them, but that I have learned listing people's names seems to cause problems for them in-game.
Hard to tell when it is always "I, I, I, Me, Me, Me". As a suggestion, try giving other peoples examples more often.

QUOTE
I'm not mocking traditions, I am saying the current members (especially the newer ones) should not feel like they are stuck beneath our shadows, and that every thing we put into the Kwan should be written in stone. I am of the opinion that the path is there for those who are in it, and if the roleplay is not up to their expectations or fulfilling their desires, than it should be changed to better accommodate them. The same is especially true for the policies of the path and the rules they must abide by.
Only problem with this is the wide diversity of opinions and thoughts. While it is a good idea in theory, it does not always work out in practice. Even in the Chongun it has been tried a few times.

QUOTE
I am indirectly responsible for the current problems of the path because of the direct involvements I have had with the path. It would be irresponsible of me to not at least speak out when I see a problem and offer a better solution. Even if the current status quo does not listen to a thing I say, I do have the hope some future leader will have read what I wrote and will remember it, even if they do not become a Chongun Elder, or any sort of leader in-game.
In the end, nobody but those inside the path knows what really happens. It is more like looking through the window and trying to see what is going on. But you are unable to hear anything. The only details you only get are from those who come walking out and start saying their side. Which will differ from person to person. And we know how reliable "word of mouth" is most times. They are often like "selected truths".

Liadriel did have quite a few good ideas to help the path. If he followed through with those plans instead of what he did (none of which he EVER mentioned doing), he would have been more successful.


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Hijack
post Jan 6 2009, 05:31 PM
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So let me get this right. He's elder. He made decisions, just like any elder in the past. Some people did not like the decisions, so they started an uprising to overthrow him. They vote to remove him, and it passes, he then boots everyone?

He also wanted to make stuff more accessible to just regular walkers, and make it easier to join chongun? And we're banning this guy. I blame the chonguns for this one, not Liadriel. Maybe if he actually did something illegal that merited him be removed, then ya. But some changes, house cleaning, and rewriting stuff?

"My aspirations of turning the Chongunate into a Socialist Utopia fades. There are a number of Chonguns who thrive and enjoy the elitist setting that has curtailed for years, but I know in my heart of hearts that the majority of the path shares my thoughts, shares my aspirations."

Screw you elitists. You ruined nexus. This game has changed. It's all about power hunting and item shop now. It's not about RP, and because of that Liadriel wanted to shape the Chongun subpath into something new that allowed everyone to participate.

Even if he did not do that. This guy was elder, and he was chosen to lead. Either you put up with it or leave.
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AceoStar
post Jan 6 2009, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE
Screw you elitists. You ruined nexus. This game has changed. It's all about power hunting and item shop now. It's not about RP, and because of that Liadriel wanted to shape the Chongun subpath into something new that allowed everyone to participate.

Even if he did not do that. This guy was elder, and he was chosen to lead. Either you put up with it or leave.


See, that to me is an elitist attitude. People should deal with his decisions because he is almighty? A non elitist attitude would give a voice to the path, not reserve it for the elder alone.

He was not petitioned against because he wants to make the path more accessible and make it easier to join. People were upset because he was treating the current members unfairly and destroying things that people had worked a long time for. Nothing he did made the path more accessible. Nothing he did gave walkers and guides more of a voice. He did create a "deliberation act" which if actually used would give that voice, however he quickly showed that it was just a facade. If he had chosen his path more wisely, perhaps time would have shown that this would have been a good thing.


The gods allow people to remove an elder/primogen, I guess for the "good" of the people. I personally would rather never see direct archon intervention and have systems in place to handle this sort of thing, but thats another story. But this does leave way for lots of underhanded dealings to have people removed by long standers and noobs alike.

I do agree with you though, the game has changed and things should be more accessible to all players. Hopefully it doesnt take NPC paths to get us to that point.


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SilentS
post Jan 6 2009, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Hijack @ Jan 6 2009, 03:31 PM) *
So let me get this right. He's elder. He made decisions, just like any elder in the past. Some people did not like the decisions, so they started an uprising to overthrow him. They vote to remove him, and it passes, he then boots everyone?

He also wanted to make stuff more accessible to just regular walkers, and make it easier to join chongun? And we're banning this guy. I blame the chonguns for this one, not Liadriel. Maybe if he actually did something illegal that merited him be removed, then ya. But some changes, house cleaning, and rewriting stuff?

"My aspirations of turning the Chongunate into a Socialist Utopia fades. There are a number of Chonguns who thrive and enjoy the elitist setting that has curtailed for years, but I know in my heart of hearts that the majority of the path shares my thoughts, shares my aspirations."

Screw you elitists. You ruined nexus. This game has changed. It's all about power hunting and item shop now. It's not about RP, and because of that Liadriel wanted to shape the Chongun subpath into something new that allowed everyone to participate.

Even if he did not do that. This guy was elder, and he was chosen to lead. Either you put up with it or leave.

Even as elder, he does not have full rights to "do whatever". He did not make anything "more accessible". In fact, he was on the track of denying more than what he was opening up. Giving away bonuses and promotions to those he believed would support him. As for those that didnt, he demoted and tried to get jailed. This was far from an "Utopia". It was more his own private kingdom with him as god that he was trying to do. This has ~NOTHING~ to do about elitists ((which is funny, because he was one himself)), and everything about somebody abusing the system that he had access to. In the end, majority vote in the path stated that they did not support him and had zero confidence. Elders have set rules and regulations to follow as well. He did not follow them. Not to mention he ~abused~ is powers, which landed him in jail. No idea about any bannings though, nor does it really matter at this point. Just because somebody is an Elder, does not mean they are untouchable either.


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ChiChi
post Jan 6 2009, 07:00 PM
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Ohmygosh, are people actually so upset over this~? =o


I mean honestly, so Liadriel kicked a bunch of people from Chonguns~ tongue.gif I wouldn't even call that crazy, it seemed like he knew what he was doing and seemed to just want to be remembered by something crazy and have everyone talk about him for a while~ =o like you guys are now~ tongue.gif



Honestly, everyone who was kicked was added back right? So what's the big deal? People will vote for a new Elder and everything will be back to the same boring, old way~ You can call Liadriel this and that~ like he was some sort of deviant or whatevers, but seriously. . it seemed the guy wanted to have a little fun and if he has fun doing immature things, so what? as much as some of you might hate for it to be repeated, it's just a game~ Chillll out~ smile.gif



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YanDaMan
post Jan 7 2009, 10:03 AM
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At least Liadriel will be forever remembered in Nexus history, just like Ilios and NSane were.

Soon every subpath will have a black sheep elder we can have fun hating on or praise on his "bad" deeds, woo.


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Blackh
post Jan 7 2009, 10:11 AM
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NSane saging "Long Live the Shadows" will never leave my memory, I laughed so hard that day!
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Yeas
post Jan 7 2009, 10:55 AM
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NSane ... forgot him already? Who was he?


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darkmaverick
post Jan 7 2009, 11:52 AM
Post #158


Oh san
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QUOTE (SilentS @ Jan 6 2009, 03:49 PM) *
Those rules are ment for ALL who enter the path. Despite if they have been in before or not.


So I suppose all the people who left the path to protest Liadriel are being given a free ride to come back into it and this is a violation of the rule, correct? Since it applies to ALL, no matter why they left, correct? That is what you're saying now and what you said to me, and everyone else who tried to return, in the past.

You are so goddamn two-faced. That is not why the rule exists, you are just making [Content removed] up. 200% sure on this.


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Conro
post Jan 7 2009, 12:50 PM
Post #159


Sam san
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I'm going to have to back DM on that notion.

'Rules' and 'Law' do not exist here, it's just words you can use to back your decisions, or forget about, depending on the circumstance.

If they left, and there's rules against coming back, they should apply.


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Dritz
post Jan 7 2009, 01:05 PM
Post #160


Sam san
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I have no idea how Nsane is. Even Ilios isn't really that big of a deal. Chonguns have had problems with elders in the past and most are vaguely remembered in the path. Liadriel earned himself a footnote in the pages of Nexus history. Citian'll probably the only one who is actually remembered as more than 'hey that guy sucked'.


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